Some bag of holding questions

[KarinsDad]

Karins Dad; I'm familiar with the item's description, I just think it's rather generous really. I know it takes me more than three seconds (a move action) to find and pull something out of my backpack by touch.

You do not pull an item out of a Bag of Holding by touch. You do it by magic. The bag description states how long it takes. Real world equivalence has no meaning when the item states what happens.

 

[Ambrus]

You do not pull an item out of a Bag of Holding by touch. You do it by magic. The bag description states how long it takes. Real world equivalence has no meaning when the item states what happens.

You're right, the item is magic so real-world logistics don't apply to it. But the move equivalent action listed for the bag is the same time it takes to retrieve a stored item from a mundane backpack. Since both actions take the same amount of time and both pose the same risks then there seems to be little reason, to me at least, to expect the effort required to be much different, magic or not.

 

[irdeggman]

I'm not certain you should be aable to teleport out of a bag of holding.


From SRD on bag of Holding

The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space.

If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space:

from SRD on Teleport

This spell instantly transports you to a designated destination, which may be as distant as 100 miles per caster level. Interplanar travel is not possible.

Now it depends on how you define "nondimensional space" but it seems to me that since the Astral Plane is mentioned when a bag of holding and a portable hole are put together that it at least is another plane (or equivalent). At the very least the "nondimensional space" shouldn't be on the same plane as the outside of the bag, IMO.

 

[Stalker0]

Alright let me clarify some things. I'm actually using the arcana evolved magic system...I figured I'd save some time explaining the differences and just convert it to 3.5 lingo, but since that has everyone riled up I'll explain in detail.

First, the party has a large giant with str 28, he has no problems getting the statue out.
Second, my party is 16th level and has acquired some very nice bags of holding. I have always been lenient about them to make the game go smoother, I don't mind them putting things in the bag they shouldn't really be able to.
Third, the spell was not actually contingency, its a template in arcana evolved that lets you cast programmed spells (it is a much stronger contingency if you will).
Fourth, the "wizard" did in fact have a teleport contingency, but that got dispelled. The remaining one was for petrification, which took place one hour after the effect.
Fifth, the "wizard" did not cast plane shift because plane shift is an 8th level spell in AE.

 

[KarinsDad]

Alright let me clarify some things. I'm actually using the arcana evolved magic system...I figured I'd save some time explaining the differences and just convert it to 3.5 lingo, but since that has everyone riled up I'll explain in detail.

First, the party has a large giant with str 28, he has no problems getting the statue out.
Second, my party is 16th level and has acquired some very nice bags of holding. I have always been lenient about them to make the game go smoother, I don't mind them putting things in the bag they shouldn't really be able to.
Third, the spell was not actually contingency, its a template in arcana evolved that lets you cast programmed spells (it is a much stronger contingency if you will).
Fourth, the "wizard" did in fact have a teleport contingency, but that got dispelled. The remaining one was for petrification, which took place one hour after the effect.
Fifth, the "wizard" did not cast plane shift because plane shift is an 8th level spell in AE.

1) Wouldn't 16th level PCs in an Arcana Evolved world know that multiple Contigencies are possible in their world and wouldn't they do some form of Dispel Magic to negate this possibility? Granted, not all players think of all things, but this would seem at least possible, especially for caster types with high Knowledge Arcane and Spellcraft skills. Did you give them a skill roll?

2) A Petrification Contigency? And one set to fire off an hour after the fact? That sounds extremely specialized.

3) If a Giant PC pulls the Wizard out of the Bag of Holding, the Wizard is still grappled and should require a Concentration check to cast the Teleport spell. Did you do that?

4) The errata for Arcana Evolved states: "An object,creature,or location should have only one spell with this template cast on it at any one time (DM’s discretion).". Even Monte indicated that multiple contingencies should rarely be allowed.

5) We are still talking about 900 (or more) pounds. That's still a heavy load for a 28 Str Giant and it would still take effort for him to lift such an object. He would be cognizant real quick that a) the wizard does not feel like stone and b) the wizard is extremely light compared to what he expected. The wizard, on the other hand, wasn't disoriented or sleepy after spending time in the bag and was all prepared to cast a spell. Hmmm.


It still really sounds extremely DM forced to have this NPC escape. You asked for opinions as to if it was fair. I still think the answer is no.

 

[Stalker0]

1) Wouldn't 16th level PCs in an Arcana Evolved world know that multiple Contigencies are possible in their world and wouldn't they do some form of Dispel Magic to negate this possibility? Granted, not all players think of all things, but this would seem at least possible, especially for caster types with high Knowledge Arcane and Spellcraft skills. Did you give them a skill roll?

I did not, its not something that's ever come up before.

2) A Petrification Contigency? And one set to fire off an hour after the fact? That sounds extremely specialized.

It was in fact. The magister in this case knew the party very well, and creating statues is a tactic the party uses all the time.

3) If a Giant PC pulls the Wizard out of the Bag of Holding, the Wizard is still grappled and should require a Concentration check to cast the Teleport spell. Did you do that?

I did not consider the wizard grappled, but you make a good point.

4) The errata for Arcana Evolved states: "An object,creature,or location should have only one spell with this template cast on it at any one time (DM’s discretion).". Even Monte indicated that multiple contingencies should rarely be allowed.

I'll have to check on this, I had never heard of this before, thanks for the tip
5) We are still talking about 900 (or more) pounds. That's still a heavy load for a 28 Str Giant and it would still take effort for him to lift such an object. He would be cognizant real quick that a) the wizard does not feel like stone and b) the wizard is extremely light compared to what he expected. The wizard, on the other hand, wasn't disoriented or sleepy after spending time in the bag and was all prepared to cast a spell. Hmmm.

I rolled to determine if she would be rested when he pulled her out or if she would be asleep. She had also been waiting for this to happen so she could escape, so she was ready to go with her plan. As for surprise, I figured while she was surprised at the moment, so would the giant about finding a life wizard instead of a statue, so I went ahead with an iniative roll.


It still really sounds extremely DM forced to have this NPC escape. You asked for opinions as to if it was fair. I still think the answer is no.

fff

 

[Infiniti2000]

Alright let me clarify some things. I'm actually using the arcana evolved magic system...I figured I'd save some time explaining the differences and just convert it to 3.5 lingo, but since that has everyone riled up I'll explain in detail.

Well, if you ask for opinions of fairness on a rules board about rules, we need to know what rules you are using.

2) A Petrification Contigency? And one set to fire off an hour after the fact? That sounds extremely specialized.

I actually think it's a good idea. It's only a bad idea in the case where the enemy might destroy the statue. Otherwise, you'll have a better chance to escape.

 

[KarinsDad]

I actually think it's a good idea. It's only a bad idea in the case where the enemy might destroy the statue. Otherwise, you'll have a better chance to escape.

Or a bad idea if the PCs Dispel the Contigency since the NPC is helpless and unconscious at the time.

A simple Detect Magic would pick it up.

 

[irdeggman]

Questions:

If a bag of holding is turned upside down, will all of the items inside fall out?
- If so then it might be possible for the wizard inside to get out on his own,.
- if not then there is no way for the wizard to get out


Does Arcana Evolved change the way that Teleoprt works?


Can you teleport to a different dimension?
- if yes, then teleprot will get you out of the bag of holding
- if not, then no it won't


Depending on how the above questions are answered determines, IMO, if this was a "fair" ruling.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Or a bad idea if the PCs Dispel the Contigency since the NPC is helpless and unconscious at the time.

Well, it's situational. In this case, the bad guy did some research on the party's typical tactics. Perhaps they were not expecting the contingency because every other opponent stayed a statue. Surely you can think of other scenarios where staying a statue for an hour would be better than returning immediately? Not always, of course, but sometimes.

A simple Detect Magic would pick it up.

It would pick it up along with the other buff spells that were active, if they thought to use detect magic and try to decipher every existing aura (or all four, or both, or whatever). Don't be too hard on the players for not thinking about it. I'm sure we've all made poor choices as players one time or another and surely our players have done what we would consider bad ideas.