D&D 5E Some feats/options are removing cool mechanical features of the game

There is, after all, a reason that feats are present as an optional rule rather than as an assumed default.

Kinda. While it technically says "optional" in the PHB, I think the default assumption in most groups (especially of 'advanced' players who've played 3e and/or 4e) is that anything in the PHB is fair game. My players nearly staged a revolt when I pitched a no-feats campaign. It's natural to want some character customization, and it's justified to point out when that system doesn't deliver what it's supposed to.

Also, I don't think that's a useful argument at all. If something is broken, just saying "you don't have to use it if you don't like it" doesn't fix the problem. Maybe I do like feats, but a few overpowered ones are wrecking the whole system. We could argue all night about how imbalanced the relevant feats are, but the fact is that a substantial part of the 'advanced' playerbase looks at GWM compared to, say, Tavern Brawler, and thinks that one is a must-have and the other is a piece of garbage. For them (regardless if they're "right"), it's not a choice. It's a tax. This isn't fun for them. And remember, this is the feat system's target audience.

Additionally, overpowered options can be 'less optional' than you think. Let me explain: If the DM allows the players to take feats (because, why not), some players, even ones who wouldn't normally be interested in feats, will look at GWM and feel like they have to take it, since it's so much more powerful than the ability bump. This isn't fun for them either. This is bad design. We, as DMs who want to run good games, should fix it.

...Which is more about the balance issues of those particular feats than anything, but I believe putting always-powerful effects like GWM and SS in the same silo as situational effects (Actor, Charger, Skilled, etc.) is a recipe for trouble.
 

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Kinda. While it technically says "optional" in the PHB, I think the default assumption in most groups (especially of 'advanced' players who've played 3e and/or 4e) is that anything in the PHB is fair game. My players nearly staged a revolt when I pitched a no-feats campaign. It's natural to want some character customization, and it's justified to point out when that system doesn't deliver what it's supposed to.
It probably varies by group, and also by circumstances. For example, my group just got out of a long Pathfinder campaign, so we were happy to put all of that feat stuff behind us for a while. We also don't have multi-classing.

I don't think this edition really supports default assumptions in playstyle. At the very least, they've gone pretty far toward not explicitly assuming the options that we might think should be common. I mean, they say that we don't need any magical items, because the natural assumption is that there will be some in every game, so the disconnect there really helps to reinforce the idea that we can't just assume.

I'm not sure that it's even possible to have something like feats without that instantly leading to optimization. How would that even work? It's just a matter of transparency, whether the obvious feats for a character are super blatant, or whether they require an advanced degree in system mastery.
 

The game works well without Feats - none of the PCs in my online 5e game have feats, even though I said they could take them from 4th level if they wanted. But I agree about Feats that make you think less about stuff that is your PC's area of expertise; I don't think 'ignore cover' is good design.
 

I'm not sure that it's even possible to have something like feats without that instantly leading to optimization. How would that even work? It's just a matter of transparency, whether the obvious feats for a character are super blatant, or whether they require an advanced degree in system mastery.

As I suggested upthread, I think this problem could be mitigated if there were no feats that make you better at something you already do; only feats that give you additional capabilities (e.g. Magic Initiate, Dungeon Delver). Since versatility tends to be less powerful than specialization, it wouldn't lead to as much optimization. At least there would be fewer "auto-picks" that give you features you should have gotten from your class in the first place.
 

I believe a common house rule is to remove the -5/+10 mechanic from both SS and GWM because it is OP. You then get a more competitive spread of interesting feats.

then you should add +1 to ability for those feats to compensate.


maybe better idea would be to slow the feat down a little.

I.E. you can take attack penalty equal to your proficiency bonus and get double proficiency bonus to damage.

that way if picked up early 1st or 4th level, it gives only -2 attack and +4 damage. it equals out at lvl 13 and gets better only at lvl17+, -6 attack +12 damage.
 

I have never liked feats that remove penalties or tactical considerations. To me and that makes the game less interesting. But I am not a big fan of feats in general and don't use them in 5e right now.
 

Kinda. While it technically says "optional" in the PHB, I think the default assumption in most groups (especially of 'advanced' players who've played 3e and/or 4e) is that anything in the PHB is fair game.
That people assume something doesn't actually mean their assumption is correct. Especially not when their assumption is in direct conflict with presented evidence: in this case, the evidence is that the game has been designed so that feats are optional - not technically optional, full-on have to pay for an expansion to the game to get them in the first place optional - and the designers have been clear about the intent that any optional rule is intended to be included only if those including it like it.

If something is broken, just saying "you don't have to use it if you don't like it" doesn't fix the problem. Maybe I do like feats, but a few overpowered ones are wrecking the whole system. We could argue all night about how imbalanced the relevant feats are, but the fact is that a substantial part of the 'advanced' playerbase looks at GWM compared to, say, Tavern Brawler, and thinks that one is a must-have and the other is a piece of garbage. For them (regardless if they're "right"), it's not a choice. It's a tax. This isn't fun for them. And remember, this is the feat system's target audience.
I don't think that folks that want something from the feat system other than what it provides, by which I mean the ones that you describe as looking at Tavern Brawler (or any other feat) and thinking it is "a piece of garbage", are actually the target audience.

I also don't think that Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter are actually as over-powered, must-have, and "tax" status as folks are claiming they are - of course, I've only got my own experiences with the system and my own players that have thus far found Actor, Weapon Master, Elemental Adept, Observant, and Dungeon Delver to be far more useful than the one player that has been interested in taking Great Weapon Master thinks the feat is in practical usage.

...some players, even ones who wouldn't normally be interested in feats, will look at GWM and feel like they have to take it, since it's so much more powerful than the ability bump.
I don't think the sort of players you are describing are anywhere near as common as they might seem on the internet, and at the very least, feeling like you are required to take some option that you don't actually like because it is mechanically better than other options, but those other options are mechanically good enough that you do just fine if you take them instead, is completely on the player. No amount of game design can change a player from thinking that their is either "the best" or "garbage".

...Which is more about the balance issues of those particular feats than anything, but I believe putting always-powerful effects like GWM and SS in the same silo as situational effects (Actor, Charger, Skilled, etc.) is a recipe for trouble.
This illustrates that your expectation of the game differs from the expectation the designers have for it, because you just described a feat that only applies in certain situations as being "always-powerful." The -5 to hit for +10 damage from Great Weapon Master is of as much use outside of combat as the advantage on checks to pass yourself off as a different person from Actor is in combat, which is to say basically no use because both feats (all feats, actually) are situational.

Yes, a lot of groups have a lot more frequent combat situations than other types of situations - but that's their choice, so it's there use of the tools at hand, not the tools' design, that creates the problems they experience.
 


To compare... assuming archery style.

Sharpshooter
1d8+13 * .36 = 6.3 damage
No penalty for cover
No penalty for long range


+2 Dex
+1d8+4 * .65 = 5.525 damage (.775 lower)
+1 initiative
+1 AC
+1 dex saves
+1 stealth, slight of hand, and other things.


So... doesn't seem like you need to get it to me...

have you ever seen someone with low strength using a str-requiring heavy armor?
Yes.
My cleric does. As could a wizard (who dips 1 level of cleric).

Feats should mechanically enrichen the thing you want to do, by allowing you to think more about it, and do more with it, not less.
There's room for both.

If someone want's to be an archer but doesn't want to fiddle with the cover system, then it seems perfectly reasonable to allow a feat to ignore it. Boring for you (and me), but some people want to spend their time doing other things then worry about positioning.


That said, there's also room for a special arrow feat. Which sounds awesome. Or a whip feat that let's you trip, grapple, or swing on it. The rile idea is solid as well.
 

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