Some people in Canada have recieved the 4E FRCG early!

[The Little Raven]

FR recon feels that same way.

I assume you meant to type "retcon" here, so I want to address something.

The vast majority to the 4e Realms are not retcons, they are a progression of the story. Some elements, like the Abeir and Toril parallel world explanation, are retcons because they retroactively change the continuity of the setting. Others, such as the collapse of the Great Rift or the death/ascension of Fzoul Chembryl are not retcons, but story progression, because they don't rewrite the past and say it's always been that way (like Abeir does).

 

[Vocenoctum]

To you maybe, I thought it was the worst shoe-horning of new rules/classes ever.

I was a big FR fan at the time, and remember how much folks hated that arbitrary reshuffling and smashing of the realms. It's a little disappointing that the current realms only escalate the changes, but then I haven't really been into the world that much for it to matter. I will say that Cyric's continued antics had long increased my distaste for the realms, and none of the current stuff really gives me the feeling that the world has improved.

 

[Spatula]

Well, I suppose simply advancing the timeline would not have sufficed after all. It looks like they're doing everything they can to make FR exactly like the implied setting... I can understand the reasons for doing that, as FR is the flagship setting. But at the same time, shouldn't FR have its own flavor seperate from vanilla D&D?

I hope this isn't a sign that Eberron (and other published settings) is going to lose its unique aspects in favor of the primordial-god war, 4e cosmology, etc. stuff.

 

[carmachu]

I assume you meant to type "retcon" here, so I want to address something.

The vast majority to the 4e Realms are not retcons, they are a progression of the story. Some elements, like the Abeir and Toril parallel world explanation, are retcons because they retroactively change the continuity of the setting. Others, such as the collapse of the Great Rift or the death/ascension of Fzoul Chembryl are not retcons, but story progression, because they don't rewrite the past and say it's always been that way (like Abeir does).

No.

Its retconned to shoehorn in the new dieties, the new cosmology, the new races and classes.

Thats real apparant. Is there some story line movement? Sure.....but overall is it storyline movement? No not even close.

Perhaps retcon is a poor word. Shoehorned? Crammed? which word would you like to use that shows their shoving in elemental primordials, new races, the new cosmology and so on.....because its sure not a real progression.

 

[Elodan]

I just got the book in the mail. Actually, Kara-Tur is mentioned a few times. In one section of the book, it says that Kara-Tur was affected as much by the Spellplage as Faerun. My theory is that (hopefully) when the OA book comes out, they'll use Kara-Tur. However, like the new Faerun, they'll alter it quite a bit so that it dosen't resemble analogous real-world cultures as much. Again, that's just my thoughts.

Can you post the table of Contents?

Thanks.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I assume you meant to type "retcon" here, so I want to address something.

The vast majority to the 4e Realms are not retcons, they are a progression of the story. Some elements, like the Abeir and Toril parallel world explanation, are retcons because they retroactively change the continuity of the setting. Others, such as the collapse of the Great Rift or the death/ascension of Fzoul Chembryl are not retcons, but story progression, because they don't rewrite the past and say it's always been that way (like Abeir does).

Sure, but your talking "number of incidents" versus "size of incidents, cosmically-speaking". The ret-cons are less numerous, but those that are there are ABSOLUTELY GIGANTIC, completely re-writing the foundation of the setting.

Also, a lot of what isn't ret-con, is, as others have said, not "story-advancement", but shoe-horning. I agree with others that, from what we've seen so far (which admittedly isn't the book itself for me or most others), the story has advanced very little, but a hell of a lot has been jammed into the setting or quietly forgotten about.

 

[The Little Raven]

Its retconned to shoehorn in the new dieties, the new cosmology, the new races and classes.

Again, you're using it wrong.

I can't seem to recall many new deities, as the primary complaint I've seen is that they cut down the number of deities by making redundant ones aspects of other ones (thus, Talos was an aspect of Gruumsh). That is, indeed, a retcon, since they have stated in the past that each god was a distinct entity.

The new cosmology is not a retcon, because it came to be during the 100 years between 3rd Editon and 4th Edition. So, 3rd Edition's Tree/River/Mountain cosmology was how the planes were setup in 1385 and earlier, but because of the death of Mystra, the destruction of the Weave, and the Spellplague, that changed. The plot moved forward and the world changed. That is not a retcon. You want to see a retcon? Look at 3rd Edition's FRCS, which changed the Great Wheel from previous editions into something new, and the 3.5 FRPG, which made it into the Tree/River/Mountain.

New races are a yes and a no. Yes, they retconned certain types of elves into eladrin and elves. No, the dragonborn were not retconned into the Realms, as they arrived after 1385 because of the Spellplague. Elves, retcon; Dragonborn, story progression.

New classes are not retcons. There's no indication that they're saying "Hey, there have always been warlocks." Wizards work differently because of the death of Mystra and the change to magic. Back in pre-1385, classes were like they were in 3.5, but they changed because the world changed. Not a retcon.

Sure.....but overall is it storyline movement? No not even close.

Good to see you can make a judgment on two 100+ page products without actually having read them. Rock solid.

Perhaps retcon is a poor word.

It's a good word when used correctly. The problem is that it gets used incorrectly all the time, since people often simply apply it to things they don't like, rather than things that were actually retroactively changed.

Shoehorned? Crammed? which word would you like to use that shows their shoving in elemental primordials, new races, the new cosmology and so on.....because its sure not a real progression.

"Addition."

Unlike you, I'm not upset about a new edition of a product, with timeline advancements, actually being different or including new stuff.

 

[The Little Raven]

Sure, but your talking "number of incidents" versus "size of incidents, cosmically-speaking". The ret-cons are less numerous, but those that are there are ABSOLUTELY GIGANTIC, completely re-writing the foundation of the setting.

I don't find the origin story changing from the vague "Selune and Shar kinda just showed up and tussled and stuff happened" to "Ao separated Abeir and Toril to prevent the war between gods and primordials from destroying everything" that big a deal, nor having a grave impact on any games or plots. Especially since when they retcon'd Ao into being the overgod type back in 2e, they never included him in the origin story, despite his supposed role as the creator.

Also, a lot of what isn't ret-con, is, as others have said, not "story-advancement", but shoe-horning.

Shoehorning merely refers to forcing something into something. Story advancement and shoehorning are not mutually exclusive concepts.

I agree with others that, from what we've seen so far (which admittedly isn't the book itself for me or most others), the story has advanced very little, but a hell of a lot has been jammed into the setting or quietly forgotten about.

Well, since what we've seen so far is a mere fraction of information from two 100+ page books (one of which hasn't even been released anywhere), I find any judgments to be completely unsound.

 

[Mean Eyed Cat]

Can you post the table of Contents?

Thanks.

Either my computer or this website is being really slow, so I'll post a quick one:

Introduction

1: Loudwater

Basically an overview of the town, key personalities, and some short adventures -- 32 pages​

2: Adventuring

Advancing the timeline, quick history lesson, some mundane (heroic, paragon & epic) treasures, and a glossary -- 9 pages​

3: Magic

Spellplague effects on the land, critters & stuff, other fantasitc new features (like earthmotes) and some magic items & rituals -- 11 pages​

4: Cosmology

A run down on the dominions, realms of the Elemental Chaos, the Feywild & the Shadowfell -- 9 pages​

5: Pantheon

The Greater Gods, The Gods, The Exarchs (demi-gods), The Primordials & the Archdevils -- 10 pages​

6: Fearun and Beyond

This takes up a big chunk of the book. It has a quick overview and than launches into many different (new & old) regions of Faerun. The end of the chapter also details Returned Abeir and The Underdark -- 90 pages​

7: Threats

Here we get to see some of the bad guys. We get updates on some oldies (Zhents, Thay) and some details on the new guys in town (Order of the Blue Fire). We also get some stats for NPCs -- 46 pages​

Index

New Monsters (actually an index showing where these monsters are located in the book)

Fold out map

 

[carmachu]

"Addition."

Unlike you, I'm not upset about a new edition of a product, with timeline advancements, actually being different or including new stuff.

*shrug*

YOu say potato and I say something different.

Once again, its exactly like starship troopers. Great on its own. Poor when its hanging itself on the FR legacy and history.

"Shoehon" it is.