D&D General Some thoughts on Moral Philosophies in D&D

[Eric V]

No mention of Virtue Ethics?

 

[Marc_C]

You could certainly make an interesting D&D campaign from the core concept of "The Good Place".

The PCs have died and gone to their afterlife. However, not all is as it seems...

It exists. D&D Ghostwalk:
Sean Reynolds explained where the idea came from, to make it possible to play a dead PC as a ghost: "I think it was just a matter of Monte and me understanding that one of the least fun parts of the game is when a character dies. Not only is there a feeling of loss regarding the character, but also the player doesn't have anything to do until a new character can be brought in. We thought a campaign where a character's death wouldn't be the end of play for that character or player would be a neat twist on standard D&D."[1]

 

[Steampunkette]

Morality in D&D will depend heavily on the nature of the world in which the game is set.

Are good/evil absolute? Are they elemental forces? Does everyone know for sure that there are gods and an afterlife?

A great deal of real-world philosophy and religion stem from the lack of certainty regarding these issues. When the nature of the universe is absolutely known - the impact on culture, belief, and morality would be incalculable. Maybe to the point that trying to use our philosophical patterns is entirely useless.

I'm not so certain... For the sake of argument let's create a game world with Absolute Certainty.

It is known that there is a Creator Deity named Phaedra. She is Queen of the concept of Civilization.

She hands down a specific set of laws that are the basis of all morality, with every possible person's various actions and their moral values weighted.

If you follow her rules for a perfect society you are a good person and will attain a perfect reward. If you trespass on her rules you will be eternally punished.

Knowing, with absolute certainty, the laws of moral society and the punishments for transgression, most people would still be Deontologists. They would do what is right because it is right and it is good to do them. They'd have a slightly different philosophical foundation (There is -absolutely- a Creator Deity who will drop you into eternal torment or bliss depending on whether you follow her word) but the resulting moral philosophy is the same.

Kant, for example, grew up in a fairly strict religious society. And while his secular reasoning and philosophical identity was important, his ideals largely flowed from a place informed by that theological structure.

No mention of Virtue Ethics?

I did -intend- to do a bit on Virtue Ethics, yes. But somehow my brain didn't quite flow there. I'll quickly fix that. Give me a few minutes, then do a refresh and we'll talk about the synthesization of Deontology and Consequentialism that I obliquely mentioned.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Nietzsche said the Übermensch or superior man had got his own ethical code, and all those moral values about solidarity and mercy was the ethical of the slaves. In my opinion those fine words are describing a perfect psycopath. I would bet most of villains from the speculative fiction would agree with Nietzsche. One of the best examples could be prince Joffrey Baratheon (from Game of Thrones) with a crossbow, or Ramsay Bolton and his "wives".

If morality was relative, and we couldn't report slavery in the ancient times, or the honor-muders against members of the own family to hide a scandal. Batman could torture terrorist to get information. If we accept the good guys can't go beyond certain limits, then we are accepting an eternal and immutable universal ethic, the Natural Law, and one of its moral principles is the respect for the human dignity, the core of our rights as citizens, as people.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Most D&D parties are a combination of Murderologists and Hobotarians.

It does make the trolley problem much easier!

...or does it?

There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options:

1. Do nothing and allow the trolley to kill the five people on the main track.
2. Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person.

Which is the more ethical option? Or, more simply: What is the right thing to do?

Olaf the Stout: I will do nothing, as killing five is five times the XP!

Fizzbin the Magnificent: Wait, Olaf! Perhaps we only get that sweet, sweet XP from intentional acts?

Olaf the Stout: That is true! I pull the lever, for that sweet, sweet XP!

 

[DemoMonkey]

Darkshadow Edgedark the Rogue: And then I go slit the throat of the other 5 while they are still tied up!

All together: FOR THAT SWEET, SWEET XP!

 

[Ixal]

It does make the trolley problem much easier!

...or does it?

There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options:

1. Do nothing and allow the trolley to kill the five people on the main track.
2. Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person.

Which is the more ethical option? Or, more simply: What is the right thing to do?

Olaf the Stout: I will do nothing, as killing five is five times the XP!

Fizzbin the Magnificent: Wait, Olaf! Perhaps we only get that sweet, sweet XP from intentional acts?

Olaf the Stout: That is true! I pull the lever, for that sweet, sweet XP!

Noobs.
I pull the lever twice.


While such thought experiments are interesting, especially when you throw in absolut alignments from D&D and similar games most players do not want to have hard ethical discussions when gaming. So they are in the end not all that useful.

 

[IndigoTraveler]

It exists. D&D Ghostwalk:
Sean Reynolds explained where the idea came from, to make it possible to play a dead PC as a ghost: "I think it was just a matter of Monte and me understanding that one of the least fun parts of the game is when a character dies. Not only is there a feeling of loss regarding the character, but also the player doesn't have anything to do until a new character can be brought in. We thought a campaign where a character's death wouldn't be the end of play for that character or player would be a neat twist on standard D&D."[1]

Ghostwalk is pretty awesome.

 

[TheSword]

What about the Thorians who believe that the will of the Emperor can manifest in the hearts of pure individuals and in times of great need? His avatar will appear to vanquish the foes of humanity.

They take their name from the great prophet and reforming religious leader of the 36th Millennium, Sebastian Thor who during that dark time led the movement against corruption within the imperial cult and was ultimately responsible for its cleansing and the restoration of the Imperium that followed.

This is the most "Radical" of the Puritan ideologies due to the possible galactic upheaval that could result should the Thorians actually be able to summon the Emperor into a new physical form, as believers and unbelievers in the reborn Emperor's divinity and identity might then turn upon each other.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Specifically the tendency to loot first and ask questions later, and to kill potential allied NPCs thinking they're actually enemies.

Doesn't matter how long you play D&D, how much you DM, or how much you complain about PCs doing this, if you switch to being a player this suddenly becomes really surprisingly likely to happen.

We had a situation a few months back, where we'd been fighting a bunch of satyr-ish beings, and then there was this room with a lot of evil satyr-ish beings who we had to fight, and then there was a bigger satyr-ish being like waaaay up the end of it (and who hadn't heard us somehow), and we were like "Take him out! We'll get a surprise round and drop the hammer on him!" and the DM is like "Guys..." and we're like "Okay Warlock, you go first, then I'll follow up with this..." and so on, and the DM is like "GUYS..." and we're like "Whaaaaat?" "Maybe consider if he's hostile..." And we're like "But he's a satyr-type being in a dungeon full of evil satyr-type beings..." Anyway, we asked and yeah he very narrowly escaped getting a brutal and murderous beatdown on the grounds of having hooves and horns and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That felt a bit like we were murderhobos I have to admit. Karma nearly got us danced to death later in adventure so there was that.