Sonic Fireball and Silence

[isoChron]

Hi to all of you out there,

I've got a simple question. I didn't find any references in the books but most likely I just missed them ... again.

What happens with a fireball substituted to [sonic] or with energy admixture [sonic] if the target is in a zone of silence (the spell).

On one side I could imagine the sonic damage does not apply, on the other hand there are examples of spells where sonic damage is not hampered by silence.

Please help, I must decide if my Bard4 Wizard5 on the path to elemetal savant [fire] will get sonic as second energy substitution (just in the unlikely case that some monsters are immune to fire).

Thanks in advance

Bye

 

[green slime]

If I was you, I'd check with the DM of the game first. and then I'd listen to his opinion, and go with that.

If you REALLY want my opinion, I let sonic substituted/admixed spells function within a silence.

 

[Li Shenron]

Silence negates sounds (can't talk, can't cast spells with verbal comp.,can't use bardic music) but does not explicitly negates Sonic damage.

It could be reasonable even if it wasn't so, but you know... better not apply too much logic in this game

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IMO Silence should block a Sonic Fireball, the same way it blocks all other sonic effects. (I wish Silence was an Abjuration, and not a ... Glamer.)

Sonic attacks are more powerful - few creatures resist it, even fewer are immune to it, and it's great for destroying objects (something that doesn't come up often).

 

[Li Shenron]

Sonic attacks are more powerful - few creatures resist it, even fewer are immune to it, and it's great for destroying objects (something that doesn't come up often).

But also there aren't creatures that take double damage from sonic effect, IIRC.

 

[IceBear]

This was a huge and bitter argument when this came up before. I was on the side that silence would stop sonic spells (very little else does, and if you put silence up around yourself to protect yourself from sonic spells you've got the disadvantages of being silenced to deal with), and I *believe* that when the Sage was emailed he agreed.

However, I suspect that this could get ugly again

IceBear

 

[Zad]

I think the answer is "a sonic fireball would not work in a silence"

I think the reason is found in something as simple as the Shout spell. Here is a spell that deals sonic damage. And it very clearly says:

"The shout spell cannot penetrate the spell silence."

I think it's a pretty logical extension to say that it stops any sonic damage.

The only counter-argument I can think of is that that can make Silence pretty powerful as an absolute defense against sonics for a second level spell. Of course it does come with its own disadvantages.

 

[IceBear]

I think the answer is "a sonic fireball would not work in a silence"

I think the reason is found in something as simple as the Shout spell. Here is a spell that deals sonic damage. And it very clearly says:

"The shout spell cannot penetrate the spell silence."

I think it's a pretty logical extension to say that it stops any sonic damage.

The only counter-argument I can think of is that that can make Silence pretty powerful as an absolute defense against sonics for a second level spell. Of course it does come with its own disadvantages.

Yeah, that was pretty much the argument against it, but for the amount of sonic attacks that are out there vs a spellcaster purposely stopping himself from casting verbal spells while in the area, it doesn't seem too bad to me.

Edit: I *think* another argument against it was that sonic weapons (from some supplement) specifically say they would work in an area of silence, but I just rule that in this case the sonic power just causes the weapon to vibrate, and it's this vibration that causes the extra damage (like a vibrosword), but it doesn't make any noise.

IceBear

 

[Darklone]

Yeah, it was a very long and bitter argument.

One side said: The feat is not balanced for sonic energy because

• sonic damaging spells in the PHB were weaker damagewise than other energy spells such as fireball to make up for the lesser monsters with resistances against sonic.
• it's from a splatbook

The other side said mostly that they want their wizards with sonic substituted spells stronger than anyone else ... wait no, they said that Silence as level2 spell negating some energy damage like a level7 spell (energy immunity) is too strong.

Short end of the discussion: Ask your DM. This is really up to him.

 

[Orm]

Sound is just the movement of air, so if you can prevent the air from moving -maybe that´s what a silence spell does- there´s no sound anymore. I think sonic damage works like a shock wave, again the movement of air. No sound, no damage.

On the other hand, if you shake someone just hard and fast enough this will hurt.

That means IMO sonic damage dealt with some heavily vibrating device like sonic arrows or anything else tangilel can´t be stopped with silence whereas anything else like a more or less immaterial sonic fireball deals no sonic damage.

Just my two cents...
Orm