Sonic Fireball and Silence

[DanMcS]

The shout spell lists specifically that silence stops it, which seems a pretty clear indication to me that this is an exception. If silence stopped all sonic attacks, it wouldn't need to be specified in the spell description of shout. The exception proves the rule in this case.

Silence affects audible compressive vibrations in the air. The frequencies we can hear range from about 20 hz to about 20k hz. Silence may also stop higher than that, and may for instance affect bat sonar. But the concussive effect of a sonic spell is much lower frequency than that (shock waves and such from explosions are low frequency). We can infer that silence doesn't stop low frequencies, because the only way it could do this would be to stop all air movement in the affected area- sound waves propogate through air after all. You wouldn't be able to to move or breathe in an area affected by a spell of that type.

A valid defense against sonics would be a vacuum- there'd be nothing for the concussion to propogate through. A magical spell creating a spherical shell of about two inches of vacuum would do the trick nicely, unless the sonic got dropped inside it.

Edit for clarity.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Sound is just the movement of air, so if you can prevent the air from moving -maybe that´s what a silence spell does- there´s no sound anymore. I think sonic damage works like a shock wave, again the movement of air. No sound, no damage.

Using too much physics in game is bad. You're right about it somehow inhibiting the movement of air in a 'describe this with science' kind of way. However if you continue this line of thought you run into bad things. (If the air is somehow inhibited from transmitting vibration, which is movement, then why can you still move in it? Can you move the air to breathe? Would it stop a shockwave?)

This line of thought doesn't go anywhere profitable.

The game logic doesn't seem to be there either. So.....ask your DM.

 

[IceBear]

Dan, the problem with that theory is that you open up a can of worms with some monsters being able to hear low sound frequencies from within a silence spell.

A silence spell stops sound. Period. Thus, it would stop all high frequency and low frequency sounds. Since sonic spells are just transmitting their energy via sound waves, then they too should be stopped. Remember, before the splatbook, there was no such thing as a sonic fireball so I honestly can't say we take Shout as an exception (or the rule).

I pretty much feel the same as Orm, but it is a DM's call really.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

I remember starting a similar thread a while back. For those interested, here's a Sage reply...

Would a Silence spell negate the damage caused by a Sonicball (Energy Substituted Fireball), if the Sonicball was detonated within the area effected by the Silence spell? I'd say no, but not 100% sure.

No sonic damage within an area of magical silence.

If the Sonicball is detonated outside the area but part of the Sonicball spread into the area of Silence, would the Silence spell still cancel out the Sonicball? I'd still say no, but not 100% sure.

Only in the area of overlap.

Skip Williams
RPG R&D

 

[IceBear]

Thanks kreynolds - I knew there was a Sage reply, and I remember that you (and Artoomis?) were opposed against silence blocking a sonic fireball while Caliban and myself were ok with it - and that's why it got ugly

All in the past now, right?

IceBear

 

[DanMcS]

Dan, the problem with that theory is that you open up a can of worms with some monsters being able to hear low sound frequencies from within a silence spell.

There are monsters that detect vibrations in the ground, right? Do you disallow this in a zone of silence? Because by that rationale, you should.

 

[kreynolds]

All in the past now, right?

Dude, I can barely remember what side I was on.

 

[Dark Dragon]

IMO Silence should block a Sonic Fireball, the same way it blocks all other sonic effects. (I wish Silence was an Abjuration, and not a ... Glamer.)
:snip:

Good idea, that could imply that Silence negates sonic attacks (from one point of view...).

Silence is in most cases used to shut down wizards not to defend against sonic damage, so, I don't see a big problem of NOT taking sonic substitution...

Protection with the appropriate spells against sonic damage is as easy as against any other energy type. Seems quite balanced.

Lesser monsters could be mostly killed by any energy attack (Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Cone of Cold...), higher monsters sometimes have high SR, evasion, resistances or abilities to deal with that nasty sonic-wizzie quickly...

 

[IceBear]

There are monsters that detect vibrations in the ground, right? Do you disallow this in a zone of silence? Because by that rationale, you should.

No I don't because the vibration of the earth would still occur. The low rumbling sound accompanying that vibration (the transfer of earth molecules being compressed to air molecules) would not. Thus the monster with tremorsense could still feel those vibrations. Someone moving silently over the sand might not make noise, but the purple would would still detect it.

All I was saying was read the silence spell. You did a song and dance about how silence wouldn't stop low frequency sound and thus sonic damage would get though. All I was saying was that the silence spell states that it stops ALL sound. ALL. Your ruling would require judgement calls on what sounds were low frequency, etc.

Again, do what you want in your games. I doesn't bother me one way or the other. I'm going to allow silence to stop sonic spells because I like that and the Sage agrees with me.

IceBear

 

[DanMcS]

No I don't because the vibration of the earth would still occur. The low rumbling sound would not. Thus the monster with tremorsense could still feel those vibrations. Someone moving silently over the sand might not make noise, but the purple would would still detect it.

That's the thing, there's no difference between the vibration in the earth and the 'low rumbling sound'. They're both just compressive waves. If silence dampens all sound, tremorsense won't work.