Sonic Fireball and Silence

[Maitre Du Donjon]

Icebear,

I just went by the definition of Glamer in the DM's guide, which states that Glamers affect the creatures sensory qualities...

But you're right about the fact that people outside the silence effect not hearing you...

Which simply proves that the whole thing is messed up, but nevertheless fun!



maitre D

 

[IceBear]

But it doesn't say it affects a *creature's* sensory qualities. It affects the subject's. The subject of the silence spell is an area, not a creature.

Glamer: A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

and

Silence

Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 15-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Will negates or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes or no (object)

Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use SR, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive saves and SR, and unattended objects and points in space do not.

Notice it says "...affected area." That's the subject of the glamer.

IceBear

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Good arguments can be made by both sides.

IMO, balance-wise allowing Silence to block sonic damage works well. Most spells and a significant number of magic items cannot be activated within Silence, plus you cannot talk to your comrades/minions. These are not trivial penalties!

 

[smetzger]

I am currently playing Lord Of Iron Fortress and there are some rather nasty mechanical cat like creatures that have a Sonic attack. I have not read the module , but the DM says that the module states that Silence doesn't protect you from the sonic damage only the secondary deaf effect.

Personally IMC, I rule that Silence negates metamagiked Sonic attacks but not other Sonic attacks/effects.

 

[IceBear]

Yeah, that's probably how it should be. It's not that sonic spells need to be stopped by silence for balance, but energy substitution:sonic needs some balance.

Fighting demons or devils, use sonic based fireballs to get around that fire immunity.

I like silence stopping sonic substituted spells, but I probably like no sonic substitution at all even more

IceBear

 

[SpikeyFreak]

I don't think silence should stop it because it isn't in the rules. Its magic, and it doesn't have to make sense.

Rubber soles (souls? ) wouldn't prevent electrical damage.

But, the arguement that it would silence too powerful seems silly to me. Who in their right mind is going to cast silence on themselves in the off chance that something is going to use a sonic attack against them? And if a DM does it (solely) because a player took substitution (sonic) then he's metagaming in a bad way.

I will reiterate what someone (IceBear?) said: a silence between two people is not going to stop a sonic fireball. So you would indead have to cast it on yourself.

I really think it should be up to the DM in light of the sage's thoughts. I think he's wrong, and its not his job to make rules, just clarify them, but I guess its still regarded as official.

--Anti-Skippy Spikey

 

[IceBear]

He probably just ruled sonic = sound and silence stops sound. I don't think he thought any deeper than that.

Like someone else pointed out, shout is one of the few actual sonic spells and it is countered by silence. I don't take this as an exception, but rather because there were so few sonic spells it made sense to mention it in the spell description. THEN someone dreamed up Energy Substitution: sonic

If it wasn't for Energy Substitution: Sonic I'd probably not allow silence to completely stop all sonic damage (like the Lords of the Iron Fortress monster), but if any player of mine wants to take that feat then silence is going to stop sonic fireballs

Hopefully in the revised rules they'll put a note in the Silence spell stating that it stops (or does not stop) sonic attacks. I just suspect no one thought of them (as there were so few) at the time the Silence spell was written to consider it worth it.

IceBear

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

But also there aren't creatures that take double damage from sonic effect, IIRC.

Resistance is much more common than weakness.

A wizard that casts Protection from Fire is not weak against cold. A pit fiend (with fire immunity) is not weak against cold - he is strong against it.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Resistance is much more common than weakness.

A wizard that casts Protection from Fire is not weak against cold. A pit fiend (with fire immunity) is not weak against cold - he is strong against it.

There are a lot more that are weak against fire and cold than against sonic though.

Dragons, elementals, and other creatures with fire and cold subtypes. Salamanders, rast, thoqqua, mephits, magmin, etc.

There are too many, but there are a lot more.

--Bored Spikey

 

[LifebaneSoulshadow]

Middle ground.

I've read both sides of the argument and I can see how both could be right. Before energy subsitution came into the game it wasnt such a huge issue. In fact not long ago 'screaming' weapons also were not a damage type one could put on a weapon. It becomes more of an issue now with energy subsitution being in the game and any arcane caster taking that feat usually chooses acid or sonic. Why? Because originally few to little monsters resisted it.

Silence (glamer or not) says it blocks 'all' sound. That would include the vibration type damage everyone keeps talking about as those are simply low frequency sound waves. (like in an earthquake)

Until the rules revision and possible rewording of silence, I've decided to handle it similar to resist elements. (it's just damage type specific) Silence will absorb 12hps/round for the duration of the spell. It might make less sense than an all or none solution to the argument, but I think it's a reasonable middle ground until there is further clarification about the spell and sonic damage.