D&D 5E (2014) Sorcerer spell list - why so short?

[TerraDave]

3rd thread on this?

Sorcerers aren't short of spells, they have more then every other class, but one. Almost twice as many as the warlock.

The wizard just has more. Why play a sorcerer? Wild magic.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

It would have made more sense if they gained meta magic at the same rate as a warlock gains invocations, for example. As it stands, they're main special quality remains the same for the first 10 levels of the game; I rarely get to play above 9th level before our games end.

That would be inappropriate. These abilities - metamagic and invocations - serve different functions in their respective class. Warlocks gain a grand total of TWO spells slots per short rest before level 10. In contrast, metamagic has the potential to alter the majority of the sorcerer's existing spells. These are not equivalent from a balance perspective.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

For the sake of reference - Spells on the Sorcerers' list that wizards do not get:

Cantrips: N/A
Level 1: N/A
Level 2: Enhance Ability
Level 3: Water Walk
Level 4: Dominate Beast
Level 5: Insect Plague
Level 6: N/A
Level 7: Fire Storm
Level 8: Earthquake
Level 9: N/A

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

For the sake of reference - Spells on the Sorcerers' list that wizards do not get:

Cantrips: N/A
Level 1: N/A
Level 2: Enhance Ability
Level 3: Water Walk
Level 4: Dominate Beast
Level 5: Insect Plague
Level 6: N/A
Level 7: Fire Storm
Level 8: Earthquake
Level 9: N/A

Those are not very distinctive, though, are they? If Sorcerers had one or two really great and memorable cantrips that Wizards don't get, that would do a lot to improve the class' reputation ("I may not be able to cast hundreds of spells, but I have Radiance Blast! Haha!")

Oh well. I guess the company is not called "Sorcerers of the Coast"

 

[Vael]

It doesn't bother me too much, but there are some spells that I question leaving off the sorcerer's list:

Grease - It's such a great shenanigans spell, and one of the spells my 3.5 Sorcerer had. (My Changeling Sorc started with Grease and Sleep)
Shapechange - It kinda sucks that my Dragon Sorcerer cannot change into a Dragon.
Animate Dead - Xykon is not happy.
Fire Shield - A self-only buff that just seems like something a Sorcerer should be able to cast.

Ultimately, I'm looking forward to some unique Sorcerer spells being created, right now they are the only class without any.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

I honestly find it hard to believe that anybody is seriously griping about this. The sorcerer's uniqueness lies in being able to dominate multiple creatures at once (twin spell), granting themselves advantage on any spell with an attack roll (quicken spell + true strike cantrip; or wild magic), casting spells while disguised as an orcish grunt without anyone realizing it (subtle spell), using offense magic while simultaneously protecting one's self from weapon attacks (quicken spell + dodge or blade ward), straight out bypassing magic resistance (heighten spell), etc...things that no other class can accomplish.

 

[MoonSong]

I honestly find it hard to believe that anybody is seriously griping about this.

Why is it so hard to believe? In previous editions sorcerers had clear unique advantages from first level, along with unique limits and restrictions. 5e has the clear limits and restrictions from level 1 -which are harsher than ever- but they have no clear payoff until very high levels, Is it so wrong to want more uniqueness from day 1?

The sorcerer's uniqueness lies in being able to dominate multiple creatures at once (twin spell)

A possibly overpowered combo doesn't necessarily make a class worthy. More so if it means losing out on many useful spells because they could be overpowered if twinned.(And if those same overpowered combos could be pulled out by a multiclassed bard or wizard who poached twin spell via multiclassing)

granting themselves advantage on any spell with an attack roll (quicken spell + true strike cantrip; or wild magic),

Yes, it can be useful -and something to love-, but it is costly, and wild magic is very unreliable and dangerous. You are better off with Lucky.

casting spells while disguised as an orcish grunt without anyone realizing it (subtle spell),

Another lovely thing, but it is easily poachable by a short dip. And I don't know you, but third level is too high. What about the first two levels? don't we deserve to feel sorcerous at low level too? Subtle spell -or at least no material components- should be something all sorcerers can do for free.

using offense magic while simultaneously protecting one's self from weapon attacks (quicken spell + dodge or blade ward),

Again, it is costly. And you need to wait for third level.

straight out bypassing magic resistance (heighten spell), etc...things that no other class can accomplish.

Again, for most of your career as sorcerer you can only do two things out of all of those,(just like the bard, warlock or wizard dipping to get them, and they have all of those extra unique spells) And so far your examples are limited on how to make a given spell better, but not necessarily replace the need for more spells, without things like admixture and energy substitution metamagic barely justifies the class having so few spells, both at any time and in general.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I honestly find it hard to believe that anybody is seriously griping about this. The sorcerer's uniqueness lies in being able to dominate multiple creatures at once (twin spell), granting themselves advantage on any spell with an attack roll (quicken spell + true strike cantrip; or wild magic), casting spells while disguised as an orcish grunt without anyone realizing it (subtle spell), using offense magic while simultaneously protecting one's self from weapon attacks (quicken spell + dodge or blade ward), straight out bypassing magic resistance (heighten spell), etc...things that no other class can accomplish.

I've seen this kind of counterargument pop up multiple times and I really think it missed the point. The complaint isn't that sorcerers are mechanically weak; it's that their strengths don't do a great job matching the archetype. For starters, I don't understand why they don't get subclass-specific spells like clerics and warlocks. I'm also unclear why they are significantly worse for multiclassing or Gish builds than clerics, warlocks, bards, or even friggin' wizards; to me, "dragon sorcerer" screams "badass combination of elemental magic and fighting skill," not "wizard who can haste two guys at once." If I actually wanted to play the kind of draconic sorcerer that makes sense to me, I could do it as a monk, a wizard (abjurer looks cool), a warlock, a paladin, a spoony freakin' bard... but not a sorcerer.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I honestly find it hard to believe that anybody is seriously griping about this.

Presumably you didn't read the first few pages of the thread? At least then you'd see a healthy discussion, and not 'serious griping' as you put it.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Presumably you didn't read the first few pages of the thread? At least then you'd see a healthy discussion, and not 'serious griping' as you put it.

I did actually read the entire thread, thank you. Although I suppose it is always possible that I missed something, it is my impression that not everyone is in fact saying the same thing.