D&D 5E Sorcerer spell list - why so short?

[doctorhook]

I eagerly await whatever conclusions this thread reaches with regards to sorcerers. Personally, I have misgivings about 5E's sorcerer, especially with regards to theme and role. Except for the metamagic feature, the class doesn't feel very "magic incarnate". The wild mage is too DM-dependent and too silly, while the only other option--dragon sorcerer--is waaayyy too dragon-specific. (4E was nearly as bad, and Pathfinder drank the bloodlines Kool-Aid too.) What about a sorcerer whose theme isn't a single gimmick?

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I don't really buy this logic. Evocation is still a wizard spell school - are evokers supposed to be okay sucking compared to sorcerers? (Not that they do.)

Honestly I think they just screwed the pooch on sorcerers. Meh, 12/13 (I think?) core classes being awesome is a decent record.

Mearls has said that the reason Sorcerers are limited is for this very reason. The idea is that the class is narrowly focused on spells but instead makes up for it by being versatile when they actually cast them.

I don't think evokers are supposed to be ok sucking...as you mention, they DON'T suck. But evokers have the benefit of still having the full list of Wizard spells to choose from. They may be good at evocation spells but they HAVE the versatility of combining those spells with a bunch of spells that Sorcerers don't get access to.

 

[Zelc]

At and after level 12, I'm pretty sure an Evoker is a better blaster than a Sorcerer. The Sorcerer basically gets the advantage of 4 extra levels of stat to damage and 9 extra levels of damage boosters (Empowered/Twinned Spell vs Overchannel). The Evoker has much better spell selection and variety and Sculpt Spell is much better than Careful Spell.

The benefit of metamagic as damage boosters is also misleading because it trades off with extra spell slots. If the Sorcerer used all of his sorcery points for spell slots, it's roughly evenly matched with the Wizard's arcane recovery ability. Each sorcery point used for spell slots is worth roughly extra 3.5-5 damage compared to using a cantrip on that action. Empowered/Twinned Spell should do better than 3.5-5 damage per point used (Empowered Spell probably adds 6-12 damage for one point), but only the difference should count as a benefit.

 

[Celtavian]

I believe sorcerers became redundant with every class essentially having spontaneous casting ability. The sorcerer was unique in 3E due to the spontaneous casting mechanic, that is no longer the case. The only reason to play a sorcerer at this point is to build it around the metamagic mechanic and a theme. At the moment those themes are limited to Wild Mage and Dragon Blooded. Until more themes are released, the sorcerer is going to be extremely limited. If your 3E sorcerers don't have an option for a theme, you might as well make them wizards. There is no material difference in how they cast.

 

[AtomicPope]

I point out something that everyone seemed to miss - Sorcerers do not get "Wizard" spells, nor do they or Wizards get "Warlock" spells. If you look at the lists the Sorcerer lacks any spell that has a Wizard's name. No Bigby, Mordenkainen, Evard, or anyone else. Nor do either of them get Eldritch Blast, Hunger of Hadar, Armor of Agathys, et al.

List Shrinking was thematic.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Thanks for the input.

I think I'm inclined to agree with the 'Sorcerers didn't get any playtesting so they ended up as the blasters', which is a shame.

While I could do the characters as wizards, two essential parts of the character were there Charisma and the use of metamagic - neither of which apply to Wizards. (OK, you -could- do a Cha wizard, but it would be painful to miss out on Dex or Con to do so!).

Although I can see some of the list shrinking being thematic - good catch on them missing out 'named' spells - there is a bunch of other stuff which isn't and doesn't seem to be missing for a good reason (unless - thinking aloud - did they remove all spells which have a casting time of more than one action? If that was the case I could buy that as a reason for trimming them from the list)

 

[Celtavian]

Thanks for the input.

I think I'm inclined to agree with the 'Sorcerers didn't get any playtesting so they ended up as the blasters', which is a shame.

While I could do the characters as wizards, two essential parts of the character were there Charisma and the use of metamagic - neither of which apply to Wizards. (OK, you -could- do a Cha wizard, but it would be painful to miss out on Dex or Con to do so!).

Although I can see some of the list shrinking being thematic - good catch on them missing out 'named' spells - there is a bunch of other stuff which isn't and doesn't seem to be missing for a good reason (unless - thinking aloud - did they remove all spells which have a casting time of more than one action? If that was the case I could buy that as a reason for trimming them from the list)

Maybe. I know they don't have ritual casting due to their magic being innate rather than learned.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

The old sorcerers died and everyone else took their stuff. Worse yet, everyone else is now a sorcerer who can change spells known on a daily basis. Looking at the 3.5 sorcerer class, there's nothing unique about it left for designers to build around (except the idea of a Charisma-based arcane spellcaster). If I was your DM, I'd simply allow you to play a wizard with Charisma as the spellcasting stat and we'd be good to go. Call it "old school sorcerer"...

 

[Plane Sailing]

OK, I've had a check and while some of the spells missing from the sorcerer list have a casting time of more than one action (e.g. magic circle, planar binding, control weather), there are others with long casting time which are included (e.g. teleportation circle, 1 minute) so it isn't the whole story.

 

[Bupp]

A quick google search will pull up a wide variety of sorcerous origins or bloodlines that people have made up, and a bunch of really good ones can be found here at Enworld. These are really good at refocusing that niche a bit. Most of the Pathfinder bloodlines have been converted as well.

For the OP, if you really want to stay a sorcerer instead of converting to a wizard as suggested, work with your DM at creating an origin that matches the abilities you are losing in conversion. Instead of spells, these can be the abilities that your sorcerous origin gives you.