Sorcerers, polymorph, and spells oh my!

[not_me]

Here is an interesting duo of questions.

1 - Polymorph works as does alter self, save that the possibilities for form change is greater. Say a sorcerer uses polymorph to change into a bird, and flies over his opponents. Unless the form is capable of intelligable speech, the sorcerer cannot cast spells (nor cast with somatic components unless has manipulative hands). But the sorcerer has silent spell (and still spell), which they can apply at will by turning the spell into a full-round action. Which means they can't move. Would doing so thus cause the sorcerer to fall from the sky like a stone, or would you allow (depending on the type of bird, I guess) the sorcerer to glide in order to use the metamagic. Or neither?

If the sorcerer could find a form that was bird-looking, but capable of speech, would that work out better?

2 - Assuming any caster is above a combat, and casts a cone spell downward onto their opponents. Would this essentially turn the area of effect into a spread, with a diameter equal to the height of the spell's starting point (assuming they are no higher than the max)?

Thanks,

not_me

 

[robberbaron]

1. He could always make a 5' glide.

2. Sounds like a reasonable suggestion. There is probably a template in the back of the DMG for the correct spread. You just have to work out the diameter of the effect on the ground.

 

[Thanee]

1 - Would doing so thus cause the sorcerer to fall from the sky like a stone, or would you allow (depending on the type of bird, I guess) the sorcerer to glide in order to use the metamagic.

Fully depends on the maneuverability of the bird.

At average maneuverability, for example, you have to spend some movement each turn to fly forward, or you will stall and fall to the ground, if the minimum is not reached, therefore you will be limited to standard actions to avoid this.

A kolibri might be able to do that (they can basically hover in place so probably have above average maneuverability).

2 - Assuming any caster is above a combat, and casts a cone spell downward onto their opponents. Would this essentially turn the area of effect into a spread, with a diameter equal to the height of the spell's starting point (assuming they are no higher than the max)?

At the ground it would look like that. basically a pyramid with a circular base (or a 3d cone ).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Plane Sailing]

One of the 3e tricks for army killing magic was to fly and use a multiply enlarged cone of cold downwards in just this manner. Can't do it in 3.5 because (a) enlarge doesn't affect cones and (b) can't multiply stack feats, but back then it was probably the very best way to wipe out entire army units of grunts

(triply extended as an 8th level spell its range was 100ft+ 10ft/level, or 250ft for a 15th level caster, which would give it a 250ft diameter footprint. 15d6 cold damage to everyone in a 125ft radius circle was very, uh, cool )

 

[Ghostknight]

One of the 3e tricks for army killing magic was to fly and use a multiply enlarged cone of cold downwards in just this manner. Can't do it in 3.5 because (a) enlarge doesn't affect cones and (b) can't multiply stack feats, but back then it was probably the very best way to wipe out entire army units of grunts

(triply extended as an 8th level spell its range was 100ft+ 10ft/level, or 250ft for a 15th level caster, which would give it a 250ft diameter footprint. 15d6 cold damage to everyone in a 125ft radius circle was very, uh, cool )

For your sake, I hope you also had improved invisibility going. Otherwise priority target for every mage, archer, cleric., ballistae etc is that flying mage.

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

One of the 3e tricks for army killing magic was to fly and use a multiply enlarged cone of cold downwards in just this manner. Can't do it in 3.5 because (a) enlarge doesn't affect cones and (b) can't multiply stack feats, but back then it was probably the very best way to wipe out entire army units of grunts

(triply extended as an 8th level spell its range was 100ft+ 10ft/level, or 250ft for a 15th level caster, which would give it a 250ft diameter footprint. 15d6 cold damage to everyone in a 125ft radius circle was very, uh, cool )

hmmm, always considered "Earth Rend" (Savage Species, level 4 wizard/Sorc) with "Explosive Spell" Metamagic Feat (FR-UE, level +2 ) much better as a formation killer (at level 11, first chance you can do it, you get a 130' radius spread (which yields a 260' "footprint", and as a spread will work around coorners, behind vover etc...) with the effect causing 3D6(fire)+4D6(explosive)+11D6(physical) of damage - with an increasing radius of 10' and another 1D6 per additional level of the caster through the distance hurled by "Explosive Spell", too!
Basically the end of conventional land war, and you do not even have to fly to pull it off.... And elemental immunity would offer no protection, either.

Of course - any reasonable GM would banish "Earth Rend" from the campaign to the loneliest corner of the Abyss to dwell there in total solitude and never see use by players or NPCs alike based on its humongous area of effect alone (basically a slay-all of any humanoid/demi-human horde/army, except for the boss guys, who would have few people left to command. )......

 

[Plane Sailing]

Ghostknight
Obviously the 15th level sorcerer would be using the full range of defensive buffs when doing this - at the very least improved invisibility, stoneskin, nondetection, mindblank and (if your DM is generous) wind wall. Didn't seem to be much point in including that in the original text though, since that was beside the point.

uzagi_akimbo
I've not seen Savage Species, but the spell you mention appears to confirm my opinion that much stuff that even WotC puts out outside the core books is highly suspect at best!

Cheers

 

[uzagi_akimbo]

uzagi_akimbo
I've not seen Savage Species, but the spell you mention appears to confirm my opinion that much stuff that even WotC puts out outside the core books is highly suspect at best!

Cheers

"Savage Species" is definitely one of the books taking the cake - personally, I wouldn't use it under almost any circumstances, but I have played in campaigns using it with no second thoughts (its 'official' WotC stuff, right ?). Go figure !

And we were fishing for the "ultimate killer" - spell, not the best supplemental rule, after all.

 

[Hardhead]

"Savage Species" is definitely one of the books taking the cake - personally, I wouldn't use it under almost any circumstances, but I have played in campaigns using it with no second thoughts (its 'official' WotC stuff, right ?). Go figure !

I once played in a group that allowed it. We had a feral half-ogre in our group. It was insane.

 

[Plane Sailing]

And we were fishing for the "ultimate killer" - spell, not the best supplemental rule, after all.

IIRC the best spell for area affect used to be Sunburst. Although it is "only" an 80ft radius burst now for 6d6 damage + blinding, it used to be 10ft/level radius albeit only for a miserable 3d6 damage.