Sparta-like Empire
- Thread starter ThorneMD
- Start date
Celebrim
Legend
ThorneMD said:
Depends alot on what you think a typical army looks like.
For me, assuming a fantasy world, Sparta would be at the high end of what a society can produce from ordinary (non-heroic) stock. Most Spartan Hoplites would be 4th level fighters. Rigorous training since birth ensured that ordinary Spartans got a superior attribute array - say 14, 13, 12, 10, 10, 9. If I really cared to do this right, I'd create a new skill 'Tactics' which would open up feat like manuevers (feats would still let you do those manuvers better).
Since most professional soldiers in my world would be a level or two below that, that's pretty tough. Tough enough to take on most common monsters - giants, magical beasts, etc.
Rather than bonus feats to individuals, I'd make the Spartan Law itself magical. Armies that marched according to Spartan Law were drawing upon some heroic font of magical power created by the lawgiver/the god he served/some vestige of power empowered by the discipline itself. So, for example, an army marching according to Spartan Law might grant all its members Spell Resistance equal to thier tactics (or level + 4 if you don't want to figure out what tactics does). Any army marching according to Spartan Law might gain collective feats so long as the unit stayed focused, or all thier weapons might be able to overcome up to 10 DR, and so forth.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Ya know thinking a bit more, in a fantasy world I'd go for making ALL Spartans as Clerics with War or Strength as mandatory domains (and another to give some variety)
The Spartans are all about discipline and militant prowess. The DnD Cleric is militant ( proficiency with all simple weapons, all types of armor (light, medium, and heavy), and with shields) and the even their spells are focussed on combat. With the War Domain the also get martail weapon proficiency. Spartans never faced undead but if they had it makes sense that they would have been good at defeating them
and imagine an army of enlarged, righteous clerics marching out in a phalanx and calling on the divine power of Spartan Law!
The Spartans are all about discipline and militant prowess. The DnD Cleric is militant ( proficiency with all simple weapons, all types of armor (light, medium, and heavy), and with shields) and the even their spells are focussed on combat. With the War Domain the also get martail weapon proficiency. Spartans never faced undead but if they had it makes sense that they would have been good at defeating them
and imagine an army of enlarged, righteous clerics marching out in a phalanx and calling on the divine power of Spartan Law!
Last edited:
Kahuna Burger
First Post
And what do the other armies of your world who are bound by a common philosophy get?Celebrim said:
Kahuna Burger
First Post
Because randomly terrorizing and murdering your serfs to keep them cowed and docile, not to mention infanticide at the drop of a hat has no moral component. :\ The Spartan society was Lawful Evil.ThorneMD said:
BRP2 - The Spartans abandoned their weak and sickly children. So yeah, handicapped were realisically killed. But Sorcerers' powers don't come out till puberty so it would be hard to pick them out. So training them to be a warmage would be not exactly likely since training began at seven years of age.
Tonguez - I think I'll rule that either Strength or War have to be chosen. That way they don't get yet another domain and variation is still there. Spartans did not have uniforms afterall so customization is still there slightly.
Kahuna Burger - Maybe as a society, Spartans can be viewed as Lawful Evil, but I don't think they would competely be Lawful Evil as a people. As such I see them as being anywhere from Lawful Good to Lawful Evil.
So Far:
- Spartan children are inspected at young age. If sickly or small they are abandoned to their own. (Leaves space open for that Spartan Barbarian living on the outskirts of the city and learning the ways of the people)
- Spartan males are taken from their mothers at 7 years of age or training. Those that show more Charisma then others at the time are taken to train as war wizards.
- All Spartan males have at least one fighter level. "Warriors" do not exist.
- Spartan wizards, clerics, and paladins, are all females
- Spartan males are able to train as war wizards, monks, or fighters and recieve the Toughness feat for free at 1st level to symbolize the aggressive training.
- Spartans can be rogues, but must be martial in nature.
- As a society, Sparta is Lawful Evil. As a people, they are Lawful with each person varying slighty on Good or Evil.
- No Druids, Bards, or Sorcerers exist in the ranks of Sparta.
- Slavery is common, where slaves make up the "working class" of farmers, cleaners, cooks, etc.
- Females are common politicans, with only man of 60 being able to entire office.
- Active Duty is required until age 40. A family can be started at age 20.
- The prefered style of combat is Large Heavy Shield and Shortspear with Breastplate
- There are two kings in order to allow fair rulings.
- Archery (bows, crossbows) is forbidden as it is seen as cowardly. Slings and thrown weapons require you to be more close to the enemy and are allowed.
- It is forbidden to run or retreat. Death on the battlefield is the greatest honor possible.
- Clerics are required to worship a deity with either the strength or war domains and pick one of those.
- Honor above all else.
Working on this bit by bit and starting to like where its going. Keep the suggestions coming. I really enjoy others' input on my thoughts.
Also, if you were playing in a game. Would you want to play a Spartan?
Tonguez - I think I'll rule that either Strength or War have to be chosen. That way they don't get yet another domain and variation is still there. Spartans did not have uniforms afterall so customization is still there slightly.
Kahuna Burger - Maybe as a society, Spartans can be viewed as Lawful Evil, but I don't think they would competely be Lawful Evil as a people. As such I see them as being anywhere from Lawful Good to Lawful Evil.
So Far:
- Spartan children are inspected at young age. If sickly or small they are abandoned to their own. (Leaves space open for that Spartan Barbarian living on the outskirts of the city and learning the ways of the people)
- Spartan males are taken from their mothers at 7 years of age or training. Those that show more Charisma then others at the time are taken to train as war wizards.
- All Spartan males have at least one fighter level. "Warriors" do not exist.
- Spartan wizards, clerics, and paladins, are all females
- Spartan males are able to train as war wizards, monks, or fighters and recieve the Toughness feat for free at 1st level to symbolize the aggressive training.
- Spartans can be rogues, but must be martial in nature.
- As a society, Sparta is Lawful Evil. As a people, they are Lawful with each person varying slighty on Good or Evil.
- No Druids, Bards, or Sorcerers exist in the ranks of Sparta.
- Slavery is common, where slaves make up the "working class" of farmers, cleaners, cooks, etc.
- Females are common politicans, with only man of 60 being able to entire office.
- Active Duty is required until age 40. A family can be started at age 20.
- The prefered style of combat is Large Heavy Shield and Shortspear with Breastplate
- There are two kings in order to allow fair rulings.
- Archery (bows, crossbows) is forbidden as it is seen as cowardly. Slings and thrown weapons require you to be more close to the enemy and are allowed.
- It is forbidden to run or retreat. Death on the battlefield is the greatest honor possible.
- Clerics are required to worship a deity with either the strength or war domains and pick one of those.
- Honor above all else.
Working on this bit by bit and starting to like where its going. Keep the suggestions coming. I really enjoy others' input on my thoughts.
Also, if you were playing in a game. Would you want to play a Spartan?
Obviously these things arent traditional, but they would give you some flexibility
if you chose to incorporate these things into "your sparta"
You could justify rangers and scouts as scouts obviously, specialist fighters, also druids and barbarians could be the tossed out young. They were strong enough to make it own thier own in the wild, and because by law they are spartan, they are allowed to return and follow spartan life.
I could see bards with pc levels drawn from the helots, just because they have a pc level doesnt mean they ahve to be strong, a threat, or a potential leader. They are just good entertainers. Who doesnt like a little music? war drums being beaten when you charge into battle
Really you allow enough option for anyone with a great enough backstory can be anything
I think this has potential to be a very fun campaign to play
I think you'd probably need a great story to get it started in a fun way that you could have a group of spartans acting out somewhere on thier own, instead of part of the military, doing as the military commands.
Of course, depending on the group there are lots of different stories you can use to accompany such
I suppose the question is, are you trying to play sparta exactly in a fantasy world, or use it as a template for a place of your own design
if you chose to incorporate these things into "your sparta"
You could justify rangers and scouts as scouts obviously, specialist fighters, also druids and barbarians could be the tossed out young. They were strong enough to make it own thier own in the wild, and because by law they are spartan, they are allowed to return and follow spartan life.
I could see bards with pc levels drawn from the helots, just because they have a pc level doesnt mean they ahve to be strong, a threat, or a potential leader. They are just good entertainers. Who doesnt like a little music? war drums being beaten when you charge into battle
Really you allow enough option for anyone with a great enough backstory can be anything
I think this has potential to be a very fun campaign to play
I think you'd probably need a great story to get it started in a fun way that you could have a group of spartans acting out somewhere on thier own, instead of part of the military, doing as the military commands.
Of course, depending on the group there are lots of different stories you can use to accompany such
I suppose the question is, are you trying to play sparta exactly in a fantasy world, or use it as a template for a place of your own design
As i see it
Bards - I can only see this as a helot, one good at a profession, an entertainer
Barbarians - Abandoned child - Probably gets punished lots (lashes?) becaues of undisciplined outbursts.
Druids - Abandoned child - would need excellent backstory
Clerics - Like drow, this is the females role, they handle the spiritual training
Rangers - No ranged options, a specialized scout, trained to scout ahead, then report back and take his place on the line
Fighters - Obvious, the standard and most populous class
Paladins - Females who take up the spiritual role but also adopt the martial ideals, or perhaps multiclassed higher level fighters, who take up leadership positions.
Sorcerer - Would probably need stalwart + battle sorcerer options, i could see a stalwart battle sorcerer participating in melee, but still having raw talent to conjure up a bast of force here or there. - Transmutation inclined?
Wizard - Females i can see, keeping up thier knowledge of the arcane, i could see them used on the battlefield as counterspell specialists. As blowing up a pile of opponents with a fireball may be cowardly, preventing the other mages from doing so would be heroic.
Bards - I can only see this as a helot, one good at a profession, an entertainer
Barbarians - Abandoned child - Probably gets punished lots (lashes?) becaues of undisciplined outbursts.
Druids - Abandoned child - would need excellent backstory
Clerics - Like drow, this is the females role, they handle the spiritual training
Rangers - No ranged options, a specialized scout, trained to scout ahead, then report back and take his place on the line
Fighters - Obvious, the standard and most populous class
Paladins - Females who take up the spiritual role but also adopt the martial ideals, or perhaps multiclassed higher level fighters, who take up leadership positions.
Sorcerer - Would probably need stalwart + battle sorcerer options, i could see a stalwart battle sorcerer participating in melee, but still having raw talent to conjure up a bast of force here or there. - Transmutation inclined?
Wizard - Females i can see, keeping up thier knowledge of the arcane, i could see them used on the battlefield as counterspell specialists. As blowing up a pile of opponents with a fireball may be cowardly, preventing the other mages from doing so would be heroic.
bestone - Thats exactly what I wanted to get around. I don't like limiting what my players want to play. If a player wanted to be a Spartan Druid, I think it might be cool, but at the same time I want my world to stay intact. In the end I'm about fun. So to answer the question at the end, I'm looking for more or a heavy template. And yeah, an amazing backstory would be required from most options other than the norm.
The breakup you gave though is actually really helpful and I might just use that in the player handout I provide once I'm done writing up this section of my world. I have to add ideas for the non-core classes and such, but the only problem I see is that I still don't logically see barbarians, druids, and bards in the Spartan society. Abandoned children wouldn't be accepted back, and the extreme law of the society would make those classes not possible.
And the thing about the wizard. Yeah I was gonna write that up. Fireballs, Lightning Bolts, all those things would be pretty much forbidden. Wizards would stick with counterspells, buffing, and touch/close spells.
These are a great help everyone! Thanks for the effort.
The breakup you gave though is actually really helpful and I might just use that in the player handout I provide once I'm done writing up this section of my world. I have to add ideas for the non-core classes and such, but the only problem I see is that I still don't logically see barbarians, druids, and bards in the Spartan society. Abandoned children wouldn't be accepted back, and the extreme law of the society would make those classes not possible.
And the thing about the wizard. Yeah I was gonna write that up. Fireballs, Lightning Bolts, all those things would be pretty much forbidden. Wizards would stick with counterspells, buffing, and touch/close spells.
These are a great help everyone! Thanks for the effort.
