Sparta-like Empire

[Celebrim]

I was reading this, and you guys have come up with alot of great thoughts on this whole Sparta thing, so Im not going even to try and touch the whole Which classes, society, and the spell caster roadblocks.

But....

Why even have it be people at all?

Don't get me wrong - the idea of a warforged nation is a really good one - but I thought I'd answer the question, "Why even have it be people?"

The answer is that the Spartans really existed. They were real. They were also really alien, so seemingly inhuman that the idea of them as machines is appealing, even at some level comforting. It's easy to see the Spartan phalanx that way - as an inhuman machine grinding over everything in its path.

And that's the problem. By taking the Spartan culture and migrating it over to something that is inhuman, you are softening the emotional impact. Making them otherwise ordinary humans serves to heighten the things that make them different.

I prefer to only use aliens when I'm dealing with some concept which is difficult to deal with in abstraction. With the Spartans, adding inhumanity to the concept and existantiating them as aliens rather than existantiating the alien as something slightly more familiar (but still very alien), strikes me as an unnecessary abstraction.

Now I say that, and its possible maybe that Sparta is so alien that your players can't get thier minds around it, in which case borrowing things from the robot myth to help them 'get it' might be a good idea.

 

[Tonguez]

Hobgoblins work for Sparta

 

[Nifft]

Hobgoblins work for Sparta

Oh yeah.

Imagine a city of hobgoblins, humans, orcs, and half-orcs, (and presumably hoborcs and hobmen) all united by their overwhelming culture. Each one hated by "normal" members of his own race for being a traitor.

They'd sure have a lot of enemies. It would be a nice twist on "racism is evil" -- having the non-racists be evil in their own special way.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Oh yeah.

Imagine a city of hobgoblins, humans, orcs, and half-orcs, (and presumably hoborcs and hobmen) all united by their overwhelming culture. Each one hated by "normal" members of his own race for being a traitor.

They'd sure have a lot of enemies. It would be a nice twist on "racism is evil" -- having the non-racists be evil in their own special way.

Cheers, -- N

An interesting twist, but then it definitly wouldn't be Sparta - they restricted citizenship to army training, but army training to a heritary "spartan" class.

 

[Celebrim]

An interesting twist, but then it definitly wouldn't be Sparta - they restricted citizenship to army training, but army training to a heritary "spartan" class.

No, but it might be an interesting twist on Sparta to have the Helot class be Hobgoblins. It brings up the whole, 'Is evil in born or learned?' bit and it creates this nice uncomfortable feeling that things like infanticide or murder are just a little bit more ok if the victims are 'just Hobgoblins'.

 

[D.Shaffer]

An interesting twist, but then it definitly wouldn't be Sparta - they restricted citizenship to army training, but army training to a heritary "spartan" class.

It could still work. if you made the original founders a mix of those races who came together because of their shared beliefs it'd be fine.

 

[green slime]

It could still work. if you made the original founders a mix of those races who came together because of their shared beliefs it'd be fine.

Exactly my thought as well: a common, defined warrior heritage.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Hobgoblins work for Sparta

Stolen... My pseudo-Roman Hobgoblin Empire is now Spartan.

 

[Meloncov]

A note on bards; in Sparta, musical interments were forbidden but good singers were held in very high regard. As such, the UA battle bard with Perform (vocal) would be very appropriate.

 

[ThorneMD]

Celebrim - I like the idea of saying that Spartans operated like a machine to help the players get into the characters. I think I might tell them that if the problem arises.

Also, I don't exactly like the idea of Hobgoblins and Humans making up Sparta. It would seem to take away from the Empire as a normal Empire. I would like my players not to see this Empire as pure evil like they would an empire made up of Orcs, Goblins, and Kobolds. However, if that is the effect you go for, then yes it is a good idea. Just my thoughts.

OasisKid - Dude! Whats your problem? We come on here to help each other out with idea and to build each other's worlds, not bad mouth anyone. Just because you might not agree with something doesn't mean you should throw out such slurs. For making this your first post, you really are putting a bad name out for yourself. I think you should apologize.

Now, back on topic...what type of food was the main course for Spartans? I heard it was blood soup and a few other things, but not entirely sure on this. And what were they exports?