Sparta-like Empire

[Nyeshet]

I can easily see Sparta as a LE society the way it should be. Most LE societies shown in fantasy settings tend to be extremes and stereotypes. Sparta was neither - at least not compared to those found in fantasy literature.

That said, how can a PALADIN possibly live, work, etc in a LE society? Every where they go they see things that all but require them to act against the society and its traditions. I would exclude Paladins from a Sparta style society unless they are Paladins of Tyrany (ie: smiting Good, inflicting Disease or Curse or something similar rather than removing disease, harming with a touch instead of healing, etc). Those, I could easily see in a Spartan society, but not LG Paladins.

 

[ThorneMD]

Typed up some info

This is mostly what has already been said throughout the thread, but I typed it up into the beginings of the handout my player's would recieve.

Keep the ideas coming. I appreciate all the effort that everyone puts in.

Also, keep in mind that this is for a homebrew world. The pictures on the file are not mine. I found one on Wikipedia and the other is off of Wizards. Also, the name of the Empire is the empire I plan on making into Sparta.

 

[Thondor]

So what are you planning to do with the helot class of people?

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Just watched a History channel episode on Sparta - and after reading the thread some points I would like to make.

Rangers would be plausible, but would probably emphasize hand to hand combat and or mounted combat (animal companion horse). Spartan Military was generally 80% infantry 20% calvary. They are Legendary for their Infantry and the Phalanx.

It would be possible to have Clerics or Wizards as well; but HOW would be tricky. They would definitely be "battle focused" in the extreme. More common however would be the Ranger type Turned Wizard.

that's all for now.

 

[Tzeentch]

In a D&D magical world the Spartans would probably adjust accordingly. Or not, it's worth pointing out that although "Sparta" existed well into the Roman era it was relegated to a circus-sideshow position where tourists would stop by to oggle at the brutal training while sipping on wine and honeycomb.

They were certainly Lawful Evil in D&D terms simply because the game rules are very clear that some things are simply EVIL and there is zero getting around it.

Adaptions for Magical Sparta
-- The idea of using nonhumans for Helots is a great idea, and adds a new layer of moral dilemma for players if it is the humans that are more monstrous then the "monsters."
-- In a magical world the Spartans may very well be quite willing to not just expose unsuitable children, but use them to power sorceries or other affairs that would benefit the State. The Spartans were not alone in having rather strict definitions as to who was even considered worthy of being treated as a human, much less humanely.
-- Every Spartan is a Fighter. Spellcasters can multiclass if they have the talent.
-- In a magical world they probably wouldn't use traditional hoplite tactics since it would be suicide. Or if they did, they would have feats that could be used to advantage - like the Legion ability the combat demons have in D&D (group saves). Normal shield-to-shield tactics fail the instant someone uses D&D technology (trebuchets and other medieval artillery) or spells (fireball). If anyone could pull off modern-day mobile warfare in D&D it would be the Spartans I would think (even if their strategies would be a bit inflexible due to their overall lack of personal initiative).
-- Liberally use the Book of Nine Sword abilities. Read up on some of the insane defensive stance feats and abilities (heck, the Dungeonscape replacement bull rush abilities can get movie-style crazy as well).
* Crusader and Warblades both make excellent replacement core classes for a pseudo-Spartan campaign (Book of Nine Swords).

 

[Nifft]

Okay, this has given me an idea for a fun campaign world. I shall call it All Evil Empires.

To the south: City-State of Sparta, a land of men, orcs, and half-orcs, bound by muscles, iron law, and tradition.

To the south-east: Setteshim Empire, a land of intrigue, poison, and yuan-ti.

To the north-east: Transelvania, a city-state ruled with an invisible hand -- the Lords only come out at night.

To the north: Jotenvark, an icy land of ogres and dwarves. The dwarves capture men when they can, forcing them to work in their mines until they die, stooped over in the short tunnels. The ogres can be friendlier, after a fashion -- half-ogres have been seen.

To the north-west: the Faerie Isles, a place of subtle death and madness. Few are those who return at all, let alone return whole.

Here, and to the west: the Hundred Warring States. Human kingdoms, earldoms, city-states and banana farms. Wait, no banana farms. Petty lords bicker and the peasants bleed.

Wow, that would be fun.

-- N

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Okay, this has given me an idea for a fun campaign world. I shall call it All Evil Empires....snip....Wow, that would be fun. -- N

Have you been spying on me?

 

[The Great Bear King]

How about Humans, Orcs and Half-Orcs? These might be the ONLY Half-Orcs who were not likely to be the result of rape.

-- N

EDIT: I remember long, long ago, in a box far, far away, the Orc was described as "Lawful" (in opposition to the Elf, who was clearly described as "Chaotic"). So IMHO a society of fanatically Lawful Orc, Half-Orc and Human people would be nicely "olde-schoole".

Hmm. I'm thinking of an orcish Sparta in league with a kobold Venice, a fantasy version of Japan (run by humans of course) and a dwarven version of the Nazi party, before its rise to power. I'm trying to make a campaign setting with those forces.

 

[nobodez]

Well, after seeing the movie, I think the Shield Specialization tree from PH2, as well as the Phalanx Fighting feat.

Also, they had a piper as they left Sparta, so a bard wouldn't be out of place (though, yeah, lawful's still a problem.

You may also want to use the Class-based Defense option from UA for your Spartans, as they probably won't we using much, if any, armor.

 

[Celebrim]

You may also want to use the Class-based Defense option from UA for your Spartans, as they probably won't we using much, if any, armor.

Err... huh? My understanding of the Hoplite is that they were using the heaviest armor available in the ancient world - greathelm, breastplate, greeves, pteruges around the loin and possibly shoulders. It's not like anyone had articulated full plate at the time, and I'm fairly sure that mail hasn't even been invented yet (and is certainly unknown in Greece at the time).