Speaking Abyssal inherently evil?

[Khayman]

Practical and "must" are not the same thing at all.

There are Languages that are learnt that are not spoken at all (now dead languages known only from ancient texts. Egyptian Heiroglyphs, for example. People in modern day Egypt speak Arabic).

I was speaking from a human standpoint. It depends on how much one wishes to anthropomorphize fiends and celestials.

Text is a different matter than spoken language. Agreed, logographic and hieroglyphic systems are more divorced from phonetics. A literary example of a corrupting glyph would be the Yellow Sign (for all you Hastur worshippers out there). But could a book-trained archaeologist be intelligible to an ancient Egyptian listener? I wouldn't be, but maybe that's just a result of my graduate program...

Again, from a human standpoint, learning a verbal language is easier if one actually speaks it as part of the process of learning. Not impossible, just easier. Now, celestials might be a whole different ball of wax and may be created with an innate undestanding of evil. Or not. Again, depends on the campaign. I played in one campaign where spoken Abyssal caused pain to celestial listeners. I've also played in one where archons cursed in Abyssal just as much as did the primes. And my tiefling PC and his litter-mates were born knowing Abyssal as a sort of 'twin language'.

My view of lower planar languages is courtesy of Planescape, in that they serve as trade languages when (a) it needs to be recorded, and (b) telepathy is impossible or just plain dangerous. The Dark Speech from BoVD (like Lingua Praestantia from WFRP) serves nicely as a primal language of evil right down to its corrupting influence. If you don't like Dark Speech, use Abyssal/Infernal/whatever in its stead --- just bear in mind that it might be risky to include corruptingly evil tongues on the list of bonus languages available to good clerics.

 

[Khayman]

Of course, the steps one takes to learn Abyssal might be as corrupting as the language itself... hiring a teacher might involve consorting with fiends, cultists, and the like.

 

[Kesh]

To reiterate what Vaxalon said: Abyssal is not evil. However, the Dark Speech language (from Book of Vile Darkness) actually is. Using Dark Speech is an evil act. It's specifically spelled out as such, so I don't think Abyssal or Infernal qualify as evil.

 

[Tonguez]

But could a book-trained archaeologist be intelligible to an ancient Egyptian listener? I wouldn't be, but maybe that's just a result of my graduate program...

Again, from a human standpoint, learning a verbal language is easier if one actually speaks it as part of the process of learning. Not impossible, just easier.

My grand uncle was 93 when he died and he often complained that he couldn't understand the booked-learned speakers of his native language (its also a fact that native speakers do not as a whole do well in formal learning of their language). So I'd so the ancient egptians probably would haqve problems understanding you until they worked out what you were trying to say in your mangling accent.

Another interesting tidbit is that a one point a University in Germany (I forget which) taught a course in the Maori (the native Polynesian) language of NZ and yet the lecturers and students had never heard spoken maori. Apparently the class had during WWII in order to interpret the communications of Maori speaking soldiers. It was many years later that the University accessed tapes of spoken Maori

 

[Tonguez]

PS would people please cut with citing Dark Speech - I think we all get the point.

However the BOVD isn't a core book (and isn't a book I'm interested in) and so comparisons aren't entirely relevant since Abyssal IS a Core-book langugae

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I've never read the BoVD, but I imagine [cut by request] to be akin to and opposed by the Words of Creation in the BoED. The Words of Creation are fragments of a language that embodies the power of goodness. Speaking the words has a magical effect beyond mere communication. Celestial is a base derivative of the perfect that is the Words.

A language such as the Words of Creation, that creates an effect when spoken, can indeed have alignment repercussions.

Abyssal is not such a language.

People may begin to shun you when they learn that you've taken the time to learn the speech of fiends. After all, why learn to speak with devils if you do not intend to do exactly that? And who speaks with devils? Evil conjurers. Soul traders. Necromancers. Fiendish sycophants. Witches.

Speaking Abyssal isn't evil. But speak it too often, and in the wrong company, and people will think you're evil regardless.

 

[Timeboxer]

However the BOVD isn't a core book (and isn't a book I'm interested in) and so comparisons aren't entirely relevant since Abyssal IS a Core-book langugae

...wait, why not? Certainly it's expected to be compatible with the core books, so by extension you can learn information about the core books using it.

In this case, we're talking "The exception proves the rule." The core rules provide for speaking various languages. The BoVD, which supplements the core rules, provides for speaking Dark Speech. Speaking Dark Speech is an inherently evil act. This appears to be an exception to the rule (that speaking a language is not inherently evil), and in so being, it implies that all other languages are definitively compliant with the rule unless so noted.

So there you go.

 

[jerichothebard]

I would have to chime in here with another vote for "not evil". However, that doesn't mean that speaking it to an illiterate peasant or ignorant lay-priest in the backwaters of society wouldn't still get you lynched or burned at the stake as a witch.

 

[Steverooo]

Speaking Abyssal (or Infernal) isn't evil, nor is speaking Celestial necessarily good. I have a Ranger who speaks Infernal, with Favored Enemies: Outsiders (Evil). He will eventually learn Abyssal and Celestial, as well. The bonuses to Spot & Listen make little sense, if you can't sneak in and spy on your enemies.

Gandalf did, indeed, speak Black Speach, and in Elrond's last homely house east of the sea, too! Apparently, he just feared speaking it in the shire, when he knew that the Nine were riding nearby.

Rules for sanity checks (which everyone knows D&D doesn't have) also seem ridiculous, to me. Nasty languages they may be, but SAN Checks? Nah!

Likewise, most Commoners won't react to such languages, at all... How would they know what language it is? Most likely, they wouldn't recognize it any more than most of us would recognize Maori, Ebu, or Hottentot.

Notice, also, that Orcs (and their Half-Human kin) can select it as a bonus language, if they have an higher INT (and want to). So it's not like learning Abyssal/Infernal are that hard...

Mechanically, there's no good reason to make it harder, and several good reasons not to. YMMV.

 

[Orius]

I don't have the MM with me, but aren't there Celestials that can speak Abyssal? If it were inherently evil, why would they speak it?

Speaking it isn't inherently evil. That's why the celestials know it — so the enemies understand when the avenging archangel tells them he's going to smite their asses back to hell.