Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

[freyar]

While I like the template, I'm not sure it is really necessary. Perhaps we can just create abbreviated statblocks for sample burning zombies of appropriate size (using the template as a guideline), and fix the Hit Dice, so as to not overcomplicate the creature? Since the wall is only 8 HD, and probably won't advance much (since they get bigger by linking with others), I'd imagine they won't kill creatures much more powerful than themselves.

Yeah, that sounds sensible to me. Before switching to construct, I would have been happy with "Burning zombies are standard zombies which deal an extra 1d6 fire damage with their bite attacks," but probably we need to write at least abbreviated stat blocks.

 

[Cleon]

While I like the template, I'm not sure it is really necessary. Perhaps we can just create abbreviated statblocks for sample burning zombies of appropriate size (using the template as a guideline), and fix the Hit Dice, so as to not overcomplicate the creature? Since the wall is only 8 HD, and probably won't advance much (since they get bigger by linking with others), I'd imagine they won't kill creatures much more powerful than themselves.

That's fine, I was basically doing the template for my own amusement, it may be useful as an appendix though. Upon second thoughts I'm wondering whether the 'Burning Zombie' template should provide bonus Hit Dice rather than doubling whatever the base creature has, say:

Small: +1 HD
Medium: +1 HD
Large: +2 HD
Huge: +4 HD
Gargantuan: +8 HD
Colossal: +16 HD
​

That should cut down on the chance of the carnivorous wall creating zombies a lot tougher than itself. The template as written says if the wall paralyzes and engulfs a 7 HD harpy it spits out a 14d10+20 HD burning zombie, which doesn't feel right.

Anyhows, I was planning to stat up a few sample burning zombies, but just got distracted by other things. It'd be easiest to convert the SRD's zombies. How about stats for a Kobold, Bugbear or Troglodyte? Do we want a non-humanoid form as well, like a Wolf?

As for the difficult recovery for raised/resurrected burning zombies, I just copied that from the original text so you can drop it if you like. We do need some statement about the flaming liquid damage and that it can be returned to life via magic, unlike normal Constructs.

 

[freyar]

Hmm, so you're thinking racial HD + 1 (or other size modifier) HD + normal construct bonus hp. I think that works ok.

I agree that we should state directly that the burning zombies can be returned to life by magic, sure.

I think a Small (kobold) and Medium (human?) burning zombie are probably sufficient. I'd be fine with putting in a wolf, too, though. The more the merrier, as long as it isn't too much work!

 

[freyar]

Hmm, so you're thinking racial HD + 1 (or other size modifier) HD + normal construct bonus hp. I think that works ok.

I agree that we should state directly that the burning zombies can be returned to life by magic, sure.

I think a Small (kobold) and Medium (human?) burning zombie are probably sufficient. I'd be fine with putting in a wolf, too, though. The more the merrier, as long as it isn't too much work!

 

[Cleon]

Hmm, so you're thinking racial HD + 1 (or other size modifier) HD + normal construct bonus hp. I think that works ok.

I agree that we should state directly that the burning zombies can be returned to life by magic, sure.

I think a Small (kobold) and Medium (human?) burning zombie are probably sufficient. I'd be fine with putting in a wolf, too, though. The more the merrier, as long as it isn't too much work!

Sounds like we're agreed, so I'll modify the template accordingly.

I'm also thinking of changing the natural armour bonus so it does not stack with any natural armour the creature already has, otherwise you can end up with very high AC monsters.

I fancy adding a Medium burning zombie that's tougher than a human, an ex-animal and something that can fly. That should give enough variety for an interesting range of encounters.

How about:

Kobold
Human
Bugbear
Wolf
Harpy?

I'd have liked Dire Bat for the flying critter but it's a Large animal. Indeed, there are very few suitable Small or Medium flying monsters in the SRD. Most are Outsiders which are ineligible or Dragons which I don't fancy using. What's left are darkmantles (which have no skeletons, so are ineligible), gargoyles (which just don't feel right to me) and cockatrices (If a Carnivorous Wall tries swallowing one of those it would probably end up a Stone Wall!)

 

[freyar]

I think the natural armor bonus is ok as is, just like the normal zombie.

You might ask Shade how many examples he wants to include before you do the work.

 

[Cleon]

I think the natural armor bonus is ok as is, just like the normal zombie.

You might ask Shade how many examples he wants to include before you do the work.

I'm probably worrying needlessly, since it only makes a significant difference for big monsters, consider a Bulette's +12 natural armour or a Delver's +15, which would become +18 and +21 with the +6 bonus for a Huge burning zombie.

Since we're assuming regular-sized Large carnivorous walls, we won't need sample burning zombies bigger than Medium.

We haven't even decided on the maximum size of the Wall yet, it'd need to be Gargantuan to engulf & spawn a Huge burning zombie. Which raises the point that I didn't really need template stats for Colossal burning zombies, since the wall has to be a size bigger than its victim and there's no size bigger than Colossal. Although I suppose an evil wizard could get around it by reducing the victim in size before feeding it to the wall, then restoring it afterwards.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, advancement isn't too clear to me -- I don't know if we're allowing advancement or just letting them "connect" to each other like tinker toys.

I wouldn't worry about the burning zombie natural armor much for those odd cases. It's not any wonkier than the normal zombie template (really, this doesn't do much other than add a few hp and a little damage to the bite).

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, advancement isn't too clear to me -- I don't know if we're allowing advancement or just letting them "connect" to each other like tinker toys.

I wouldn't worry about the burning zombie natural armor much for those odd cases. It's not any wonkier than the normal zombie template (really, this doesn't do much other than add a few hp and a little damage to the bite).

Okay, I won't worry about that for the time being. I've updated my template proposal to include the bonus HD changes and added sample stats for a Kobold, Troglodyte, Bugbear, Worg and Harpy.

That should do for the time being.

 

[Cleon]

Oops, I've just looked at the stats and noticed all (or at worst some) of the errors, mainly to do with the damage bonuses. I've fixed the sample beasties accordingly. I've also fiddled with the template to make the Flaming Bite fire damage scale with size, otherwise we'll have Diminutive cockroaches and Colossal purple worms both doing +1d6 fire damage after becoming burning zombies.

I've also statted up a Rat as a sample Tiny zombie. Rats may be the staple diet of Carnivorous Walls, so it's probable they amass enough of them to form a Burning Zombie Rat Swarm - just imagine all those scuttling bodies, with their heads on fire! Do Construct swarms get bonus HP? How should I apply the Flaming Bite? Since a Rat Swarm is treated as a 10' by 10' creature should I give it the bonuses for a Large burning zombie, like this:

Rat Swarm Burning Zombie
Type: Tiny Construct (Swarm)
Hit Dice: 4d10+33 (55 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), climb 10 ft, swim 10 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +1 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/—
Attack: Swarm (1d6 plus 2d6 fire)
Full Attack: Swarm (1d6 plus 2d6 fire)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Distraction, flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits, swarm traits
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 13, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 2
Alignment: Always neutral

Combat
A burning zombie rat swarm seeks to surround and attack any warm-blooded prey it encounters. A swarm deals 1d6 points of damage plus 2d6 points of fire damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move.
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a swarm in its square must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.

I'd like to do a Stirge as well - mainly because I like Stirges - but
unfortunately they lose their special attacks if I follow my template, which takes away all their charm. But if I cheat a bit and retain the Stirge's Extraordinary attacks, we get the following stats, I left the Burning Zombie Stirge's CR unchanged since it kept its nasty attack powers (EDIT - Oops, it should be CR 1/2 the same as the base creature, fixed it back):

Stirge Burning Zombie (modified)
Type: Tiny Construct
Hit Dice: 1d10+3 (8 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 5 ft. (1 square), fly 30 ft. (clumsy)(6 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+2 size, +3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–11 (+1 when attached)
Attack: Attach +2 touch or bite -1 melee (1d3-3 and 1d4 fire)
Full Attack: Attach +2 touch or bite -1 melee (1d3-3 and 1d4 fire)
Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Attach, blood drain, Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +3, Will +0
Abilities: Str 5, Dex 17, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: ½
Alignment: Always neutral

Combat
A burning zombie stirge attacks by landing on a victim, finding a vulnerable spot, and plunging its proboscis into the flesh. This is a touch attack and can target only Small or larger creatures.

Attach (Ex): If a burning zombie stirge hits with a touch attack, it uses its eight pincers to latch onto the opponent’s body. An attached burning zombie stirge is effectively grappling its prey. The stirge loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and has an AC of 13, but holds on with great tenacity. Stirges have a +12 racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).
An attached burning zombie stirge can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached stirge through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the stirge.

Blood Drain (Ex): A burning zombie stirge drains blood with its Flaming Bite proboscis, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage and 1d4 points of fire damage in any round when it begins its turn attached to a victim. Once it has dealt 4 points of Constitution damage, it detaches and flies off to deliver its meal to the Carnivorous Wall that created it. If its victim dies before the stirge’s appetite has been sated, the stirge detaches and seeks a new target.