Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

[Big Mac]

Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a swarm in its square must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.

This is an interesting ability, but the name doesn't match what it does. Something called "Distraction" should do something like force people to roll concentration checks. It souldn't make people feel sick. Something like "Nausiating Smell" or "Revolting Apperance" should do that sort of thing.

 

[freyar]

This is an interesting ability, but the name doesn't match what it does. Something called "Distraction" should do something like force people to roll concentration checks. It souldn't make people feel sick. Something like "Nausiating Smell" or "Revolting Apperance" should do that sort of thing.

This is a standard ability for swarms, though, so we're stuck with it.

I'm not so sure the stirges should keep their blood drain, though; it's not too normal for a construct.

 

[Cleon]

I'm not so sure the stirges should keep their blood drain, though; it's not too normal for a construct.

Yes, I said it wasn't following the zombie template rules on Special Attacks. It's just to me a Stirge without attach and blood drain ain't a Stirge, just a funny looking bat. As for precedents, doesn't the Blood Golem of Hextor have a similar ability?

Anyhows, I notice that I didn't adjust the Rat Swarm's CR from the SRD stat block and somehow it got another HD over the original's 4d8, just fixed that. Now since I gave the Swarm a Large Construct's bonus HP, maybe I should give it the template's bonus HD and bite damage? That would make it:

Rat Swarm Burning Zombie
Type: Tiny Construct (Swarm)
Hit Dice: 6d10+33 (66 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), climb 10 ft, swim 10 ft.
Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +1 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/—
Attack: Swarm (1d8 plus 2d6 fire) (flaming bite)
Full Attack: Swarm (1d8 plus 2d6 fire) (flaming bite)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Distraction, flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits, swarm traits
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 13, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 3
Alignment: Always neutral

 

[Cleon]

Looking through the list, if we use the 6 HD rat swarm we've got one sort of monster for every HD from 1/2 to 8 with the exception of 7 HD. Now I fancy filling the gap. From the SRD there are the following candidates:

Bison, Dire Ape, Dire Wolverine, Giant Wasp, Lion, Medusa, Owlbear.

They're all Large except for the Medusa, who would be an interesting sight - wouldn't her snaky hair get flaming bites as well? Although there is something to be said for a Large monster, just in case we have Huge carnivorous walls. If we do, I fancy the Dire Ape best.

Which do you prefer?

EDIT: Here are their stats, the Dire Ape version is a lot tougher than the medusa. The size Large and the Str 24 increase its damage-dealing capacity considerably and it gains a Contruct's immunities and bonus HPs, plus I left in the Rend special attack which the template as written would remove. It's more of a CR 4 than the CR 3 the template gives. Well, that's par for the course for templates that don't include a CR adjustment for size, maybe I should add such a clause to the template.

Dire Ape Burning Zombie
Type: Large Construct
Hit Dice: 7d10+33 (71 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 18
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+15
Attack: Bite +11 melee (1d8+7 plus 2d6 fire)
Full Attack: Bite +11 melee (1d8+7 plus 2d6 fire) and 2 claws +6 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite, rend
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 13, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 3 [more like a 4?]
Alignment: Always neutral

Rend (Ex)
A dire ape burning zombie that hits with both claw attacks latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an extra 2d6+10 points of damage.


Medusa Burning Zombie
Type: Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 7d10+23 (61 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+4
Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 fire) or shortbow +5 ranged (1d6/×3) or dagger +5 melee (1d4+1/19–20) or snakes +5 melee (1d4 plus 1d6 fire)
Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d6+1 plus 1d6 fire) and dagger +0 melee (1d4/19–20) and snakes +0 melee (1d4 plus 1d6 fire) or shortbow +5 ranged (1d6/×3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 13, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 3
Alignment: Always neutral

 

[Shade]

Wow! I was thinking more along the lines of just a single example of each size, but I suppose that could work.

For simplicity's sake, I think we should eliminate any weapons/armor and assume they are destroyed by the wall's digestive juices.

I also would rather not "cheat" and drop all special abilities. Creative DMs can always make a judgement call to retain abilities like the stirges.

Can someone explain again why these aren't undead (and therefore can simply use the zombie template with a few modifications)? Sorry, I've lost track of the thread.

 

[freyar]

The original adventure gives stats for the burning zombies, which indicates that they are constructs. I'd argue that they should basically just be slightly modified zombies (change to constructs, drop single action SQ), and I think that's more or less what Cleon's template does now.

 

[Cleon]

Wow! I was thinking more along the lines of just a single example of each size, but I suppose that could work.

For simplicity's sake, I think we should eliminate any weapons/armor and assume they are destroyed by the wall's digestive juices.

I also would rather not "cheat" and drop all special abilities. Creative DMs can always make a judgement call to retain abilities like the stirges.

Can someone explain again why these aren't undead (and therefore can simply use the zombie template with a few modifications)? Sorry, I've lost track of the thread.

Welcome back, Shade.

I thought about dropping the equipment since the original monster stats only had a bite attack, but then original AD&D zombies mostly only had a slam attack, while 3E ones tend to use weapons. In the end I left the weapons/armour from the original zombie template in, so the DM can use them or not. Personally, I would keep the melee weapons and drop the missile weapons (a burning zombie firing a bow just doesn't feel right).

As for some of the base creatures Special Attacks staying on, it feels right in some cases (e.g. Rend, Swallow Whole) but I was a bit dubious, so I didn't include any SA sample burning zombies with the proposed Template, but kept them apart in posts #280, 283 & 284.

Oh, and they're Constructs because the original stats specify that burning zombies are not Undead and can't be turned.

 

[Cleon]

Wow! I was thinking more along the lines of just a single example of each size, but I suppose that could work.

By the way, when you said examples for each size, do you fancy any bigger than Large? I statted up a few Huge burning zombies (Megaraptor, Triceratops, Tyrannosaurus), partially to see how they'd work but mostly 'cause I like dinosaurs. I've left in most of their Special Attacks, but it'd be simple enough to drop them. A Triceratops Burning Zombie is nasty if it keeps its Trample attack.

Megaraptor Burning Zombie
Type: Huge Construct
Hit Dice: 12d10+43 (109 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +12 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+22
Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+6 plus 3d6 fire) or talons +12 melee (2d8+5)
Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (2d6+6 plus 3d6 fire) and talons +7 melee (2d8+3) and 2 foreclaws +7 melee (1d4+3)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 13, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 5 [more like a 6?]
Alignment: Always neutral



Triceratops Burning Zombie
Type: Huge Construct
Hit Dice: 20d10+43 (153 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (-2 size, -2 Dex, +17 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +15/+34
Attack: Bite +24 melee (2d6+11 plus 3d6 fire) or gore +24 melee (2d8+11)
Full Attack: Bite +24 melee (2d6+11 plus 3d6 fire) and gore +19 melee (2d8+5)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 32, Dex 7, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 7 [more like an 8?]
Alignment: Always neutral

Combat
Since the burning zombie version is slower and clumsier than a living Triceratops, it makes sense to lose the powerful charge & trample, but if it kept them they'd be:
Powerful Charge (Ex): When a triceratops charges, its gore attack deals 4d8+22 points of damage.
Trample (Ex): Reflex half DC 31, damage 2d12+16. The save DC is Strength-based.
With those tricks I think its CR should bump up to 9.


Tyrannosaurus Burning Zombie (modified)
Type: Huge Construct
Hit Dice: 22d10+43 (164 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (-2 size, +11 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+34
Attack: Bite +24 melee (3d6+10 plus 3d6 fire)
Full Attack: Bite +24 melee (3d6+10 plus 3d6 fire)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Flaming bite, improved grab, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/slashing, darkvision 60 ft., construct traits
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +7
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 10, Con—, Int—, Wis 10, Cha 1
Feats: Toughness
Skills: —
Environment: Any land or underground
Challenge Rating: 8 [more like a 9?]
Alignment: Always neutral


Combat
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Tyrannosaurus burning zombie must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.
Swallow Whole (Ex): A Tyrannosaurus burning zombie can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 2d8+10 points of bludgeoning damage and 8 points of acid* damage per round from the Tyrannosaurus’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 12). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.
A Huge Tyrannosaurus’s gizzard can hold 2 Medium, 8 Small, 32 Tiny, or 128 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

*Maybe switch digestive juices acid damage to fire from burning liquid, although the Carnivorous Wall's internal fluids do acid, so it makes sense to leave it as is.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

If we're happy with the template, let return to the wall itself.

The interior fluids of a carnivorous wall ignite on contact with air; any slicing or piercing weapon that strikes a wall causes an equal amount of fire damage to its wielder.

We can borrow this.

Pyrophoric Blood (Ex): A firedrake’s blood is highly flammable and will ignite in a burst of flame upon contact with the air.A successful hit with a slashing or piercing weapon draws blood and causes it to ignite dealing 1d3 points of damage to the attacker (Reflex save at DC 13 to avoid).

 

[freyar]

Looks good to me. Let's up the damage to 1d6 or 1d8 at least. Should we specify that the save is Con-based?