Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the oozes

[Echohawk]

Aside: The dense pudding can be removed from the list of unconverted oozes, since I've just notice that it was already updated in Bestiary of the Realms, Volume 2.

 

[Shade]

Thanks. I removed them from the first entry.

 

[Cleon]

Looks good to me. Let's up the damage to 1d6 or 1d8 at least. Should we specify that the save is Con-based?

The original AD&D stats say the damage dealt is equal to the wound that provoked it. So if we don't keep that rule we should say it does a typical weapon damage - how about 2d6, the same as the Flaming Bite fire damage for a Large Burning Zombie according to the template?

 

[Cleon]

Thinking about whether a Tyrannosaurus Burning Zombie would cause fire or acid damage in its gizzard, I realized that the original description of the Carnivorous Wall made no mention of them having a corrosive interior, instead it drains its engulfed victims dry.

Any creature pulled into the carnivorous wall suffocates in 3 rounds, is drained of fluids and spit back out as a burning zombie 10 rounds later.

So, should we have it do Con drain to engulfed victims instead of acid damage? That would let it kill high-level victims faster (since they have much less Con than HP), and it would explain why any zombies it contains aren't consumed (since they don't have Con to drain, and are immune to ability loss anyway).

 

[freyar]

Well, the thing is the standard engulf ability does acid damage, I think. But you could model this with Con damage (I think drain is probably too much here for those creatures that can escape the engulfing). We could do something like the following. Let's see what everyone else thinks.

Engulf (Ex): A carnivorous wall can engulf a grappled opponent of a smaller size than itself as a standard action by making a successful grapple check against that opponent. It automatically succeeds in engulfing a paralyzed opponent. Engulfed creatures begin to drown (see suffocation rules in the DMG) and are considered to be grappled and trapped within the wall's body. Engulfed creatures continue to be subject to the wall's paralyzing slime and take 1d4 Con damage per round from the wall's digestive processes (on a failed DC X Fortitude save?). Creatures that die while engulfed are immediately animated as burning zombies (see below) and expelled from the wall. A Large carnivorous wall's interior can hold 2 Medium, 8 Small, 32 Tiny or 128 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

 

[Shade]

Hmmm...the 3x "standard" for being drained of fluids isn't Con damage, but simply additional damage. See horrid wilting and dessication damage in Sandstorm, for example.

Of course, the suffocation needs to be worked in, and should do the trick regardless of what type of damage we deal.

 

[freyar]

Suffocation is already present in the homebrews version. So why don't we keep the damage that we have as acid but change it to untyped? We need to figure out how much, though. Currently we have 2d6 with a ?, but I'm amenable to going up a step.

 

[Cleon]

Well, the thing is the standard engulf ability does acid damage, I think. But you could model this with Con damage (I think drain is probably too much here for those creatures that can escape the engulfing). We could do something like the following. Let's see what everyone else thinks.

Engulf (Ex): A carnivorous wall can engulf a grappled opponent of a smaller size than itself as a standard action by making a successful grapple check against that opponent. It automatically succeeds in engulfing a paralyzed opponent. Engulfed creatures begin to drown (see suffocation rules in the DMG) and are considered to be grappled and trapped within the wall's body. Engulfed creatures continue to be subject to the wall's paralyzing slime and take 1d4 Con damage per round from the wall's digestive processes (on a failed DC X Fortitude save?). Creatures that die while engulfed are immediately animated as burning zombies (see below) and expelled from the wall. A Large carnivorous wall's interior can hold 2 Medium, 8 Small, 32 Tiny or 128 Diminutive or smaller opponents.

Sorry, I meant Con Damaged not Drained, I keep getting the two mixed up. I was basically thinking that if it sucked out its victims' fluids then it would attack Con like the Stirge's Blood Drain Special Attach - which does Con Damage despite the attack being called Drain. I'd have it do 1d6 Con damage though, so the Wall kills an average human in three rounds through blood drain (3d6 Con).

Suffocation is already present in the homebrews version. So why don't we keep the damage that we have as acid but change it to untyped? We need to figure out how much, though. Currently we have 2d6 with a ?, but I'm amenable to going up a step.

Yes, that could work. Do engulfed victim get to hold their breath, or are they considered to have failed their saves to hold breath and go unconscious in the first round, -1 HP in the second, dead in the third? If so, they'd survive an identical number of rounds to the AD&D original (although the actual time will be tenfold, three minutes versus eighteen seconds). I always assumed they started making Con saves to continue holding their breath as soon as they were swallowed, without the 2*Con rounds of 'free' air. I'd like them to stay conscious for a few rounds in the Wall's interior.

 

[Big Mac]

Can someone explain again why these aren't undead (and therefore can simply use the zombie template with a few modifications)? Sorry, I've lost track of the thread.

I think the burining zombie creation process is similar to the aruchai creation process (from the last monster), althought it is more of a sub-creature creation process than a child creation process. It reminds me of the Witchlight Marauder (from Spelljammer) which has three forms.

This also reminds me of the Shivak constructs created by The Spelljammer.

These two creatures are the reason why I think that Burning Zombies should bring food back to the wall.

Suffocation is already present in the homebrews version. So why don't we keep the damage that we have as acid but change it to untyped? We need to figure out how much, though. Currently we have 2d6 with a ?, but I'm amenable to going up a step.

Hmm. Should this creature be able to kill creatures that don't breath? If it doesn't melt people or sufforcate people I'd say no. The blurb says this: "Touching the pseudopod or the wall's surface causes paralysis for 5d4 rounds (save negates); paralyzed creatures are pulled into the wall in 2 rounds. Any creature pulled into the carnivorous wall suffocates in 3 rounds, is drained of fluids and spit back out as a burning zombie 10 rounds later."

I'd say that any creature (like an air genasi) that didn't breath, can't be suffocated, so can't be drained of fluids (at least not on a 3 rounds timescale). If a wall eats an air genasai (or similar creature) that creature should have a very high chance to cut its way out.

I'd say that creatures immune to being paralysed wouldn't get pulled into the wall either (i.e. the wall shouldn't be that good at pulling people in).

 

[Cleon]

I'd say that creatures immune to being paralysed wouldn't get pulled into the wall either (i.e. the wall shouldn't be that good at pulling people in).

Well the Carnivorous Wall is a Large creature and although it isn't very strong for its size, it still has a Grapple bonus of +12. That's pretty good compared to the mid- to low- level characters it will probably be fighting.

Note: I just saw a small error in the Worg Burning Zombie's stat block, its Attack and Full attack should both be 1d6+6+1d6 fire damage, I've just fixed it on post #255. Hopefully Shade will fix the master conversion the next time it gets updated.