Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[Cleon]

Here's the stats of the Seawolf in Stormwrack, which is pretty much the same as the AD&D "Lesser Seawolf" (2E stats here):

Seawolf
Medium Magical Beast (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 4d10+8 (30 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares), swim 40 ft.; or 30 ft., swim 20 ft. in hybrid form; or 30 ft. in humanoid form
Armor Class: 17 (+3 Dex, +4 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 14 in seawolf or hybrid form;
or 20 (+3 Dex, +4 natural, +2 leather armor, +1 light shield), touch 13, flat-footed 17 in human form
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+6
Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+3) in seawolf or hybrid form;
or longsword +6 melee (1d8+2/19–20) in human form
Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+3) in seawolf form,
or bite +7 melee (1d6+2) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d4+1) in hybrid form,
or longsword +6 melee (1d8+2/19–20) in human form
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Curse
Special Qualities: Change shape, darkvision 60 ft., hold breath, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills: Bluff +3, Disguise +3, Hide +5, Listen +6, Move Silently +5, Profession (sailor) +4, Spot +6, Swim +10
Feats: Iron Will, Stealthy (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Temperate aquatic
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (5–11)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 5–12 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: +2

Curse (Su): Any human bitten by a seawolf must succeed on DC 13 Will save or fall prey to a unique curse. On the night of the next new moon, the character transforms into a seawolf. The character’s ability scores, class levels (and racial HD, if any), racial traits, and other special abilities are replaced by those of a seawolf. He or she also becomes chaotic evil in alignment. The curse can be broken by a successful break enchantment or remove curse spell or effect, but the caster must succeed on a caster level check (DC 15) to successfully undo the curse (which restores the character’s race to human).

The save DC is Charisma-based.

Change Shape (Su): A seawolf’s natural form is that of a wolf-headed seal, but it can assume two other forms: a human or a wolf-human hybrid. The human form is unique; a seawolf in human form always assumes the same appearance and traits, much as a lycanthrope would. In human form, a seawolf cannot use its bite attack, and it does not convey its curse.

In hybrid form, a seawolf’s swim speed is reduced to 20 feet, but it has a much faster land speed, and it gains two claw attacks (or can use its claws to wield weapons, if it prefers). This form otherwise resembles the seawolf form.

A seawolf remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, not does a seawolf revert to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell, however, reveals its natural form if it is in human form.

Hold Breath (Ex): A seawolf can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 6 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical seawolf, this is 84 rounds, or over 8 minutes.

Skills: A seawolf has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

 

[Cleon]

Okay, the Greater Seawolf has lots more HD than its lesser kin (9+2 vs 2+2), a much faster swim speed (27 vs 12) but is woefully slower on land (9 vs 30), a nastier bite, is Large sized when in seawolf form, and the only weapons that hurt it are silver, cold iron, or magical.

Curiously, the Greater Seawolf has no hybrid "wolfman" form while the Lesser Seawolf does. What's up with that?

Also, isn't it odd that the Lesser Seawolf is so fast on land - it's 2.5 times faster than it is in water - its land speed is literally twice as fast as a regular AD&D Werewolf! (30 vs 15). I can't help wondering whether they got the numbers the wrong way round and it's meant to be land speed 12", swim speed 30" - or 3" faster than the bulkier Greater version.

Still, it's an interesting quirk and I wouldn't mind keeping it.

Okay, we can use the Stormwrack Seawolf as a foundation.

Here's a few starting questions:

How many Hit Dice do you fancy?
A direct translation to 9 HD would be OK, although I would not object to more (11? 13?) since the Stormwrack version has 2 more HD than the original monster.

Are we giving it a hybrid form?
I'd say yes, and we should give it a high land speed as a callback to the curious speed switch of the original.

Do we allow "mixed packs"
The monster writeup does not state it outright, but there's no mention of packs that include both lesser seawolves and greater seawolves.

Do we include non-MC sources?
There is an adventure (“Caveat Emptor” by Ted Zurich) in Dungeon #58 (1996) that has both lesser and greater seawolves in mixed encounters and describes a greater seawolf assuming hybrid form, as well as a few other titbits of information (e.g. the greater seawolf who causes the outbreak turned different victims into lesser or greater werewolves, apparently depending on what level they are).

We could consider some of that scenario's info for our conversion.

However, I should mention that these seawolves came about as a result of a dentist accidentally using greater seawolf teeth as implants, so they may follow different rules than regular seawolves!

 

[Cleon]

Might as well start a Working Draft.

I'll use the stats of the Stormwrack Seawolf as a "base creature".

 

[Cleon]

Greater Seawolf Working Draft

Seawolf, Greater
Large Magical Beast (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 9d10+36 (76 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 60 ft.
Armor Class: 18 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +6 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+19
Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+9/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +15 melee (2d6+9/19-20)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Constrict 2d6+9, curse, improved grab
Special Qualities: Change shape, damage reduction 10/cold iron, darkvision 60 ft., hold breath, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +9, Will +7
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 17, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills: Bluff +4, Disguise +4, Hide +3, Listen +8, Move Silently +7, Profession (sailor) +4, Spot +8, Swim +14
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Iron Will, Stealthy (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (4–16)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 10–14 HD (Large); 15-27 (Huge)
Level Adjustment: +3

Greater Seawolf, Humanoid Form
Medium Magical Beast (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 9d10+36 (76 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft., swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 18 (+4 Dex, +4 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+11
Attack: Longsword +11 melee (1d8+2/19–20) or bite +12 melee (1d3+2) or unarmed strike +11 melee (1d3+2)
Full Attack: Longsword +11/+6 melee (1d8+2/19–20) and unarmed strike +6 melee (1d3+1) and bite +7 melee (1d3+2/19-20); or bite +12 melee (1d3+2/19-20) and 2 unarmed strikes +6 melee (1d3+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Constrict 2d3+6, curse, improved grab
Special Qualities: Change shape, damage reduction 10/cold iron, darkvision 60 ft., hold breath, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +10, Will +7
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 19, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 12
Skills: Bluff +4, Disguise +4, Hide +8, Listen +8, Move Silently +8, Profession (sailor) +4, Spot +8, Swim +10
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Unarmed Strike (B), Iron Will, Stealthy (B), Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (4–16)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always chaotic evil
Advancement: 10–27 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: +3

A sleek seal-like creature, powerfully muscled and four or five yards long. The beast has the head of a snarling wolf, tiny ears, and jaws crammed with fangs. Its body is covered in thick fur which lengthens into a mane over its neck and shoulders.

A greater seawolf is a powerful relative of the common seawolf. Greater seawolves do not have a hybrid "wolfman" form like standard seawolves do, they can only take the shape of a human or a large wolf-headed seal. They roam the ocean in packs like their lesser seawolf kin, seeking out humanoids to murder or inflict with their curse.

in its natural form, a greater seawolf is typically 12 to 15 feet long and weighs 1000 to 1500 pounds. In human form they stand 6 or 7 feet tall and weigh 200 pounds or more.

COMBAT
Cunning and sly, greater seawolves prefer to fight in seawolf form and use their human form to mislead their victims. A common greater seawolf trick is to take human form and climb aboard a ship at night, silently strangle the watch, then assault the sleeping crew.

Curse (Su): Any human bitten by a greater seawolf must succeed on DC 15 Will save or fall prey to a unique curse. On the night of the next new moon, the character transforms into a seawolf (the standard Stormwrack version, not a greater seawolf). The character’s ability scores, class levels (and racial HD, if any), racial traits, and other special abilities are replaced by those of a seawolf. He or she also becomes chaotic evil in alignment. The curse can be broken by a successful break enchantment or remove curse spell or effect, but the caster must succeed on a caster level check (DC 15) to successfully undo the curse (which restores the character’s race to human).

The save DC is Charisma-based.

Change Shape (Su): A greater seawolf’s natural form is that of a wolf-headed seal, but it can also assume the form of a human. The human form is unique; a seawolf in human form always assumes the same appearance and traits, much as a lycanthrope would.

A seawolf remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, not does a seawolf revert to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell, however, reveals its natural form if it is in human form.

Hold Breath (Ex): A seawolf can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 8 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical greater seawolf, this is 144 rounds, or over 14 minutes.

Constrict (Ex): On a successful grapple check, a greater seawolf deals 2d3+6 damage if in human form or 2d6+9 damage if in seawolf form. Greater seawolves always seize their victims by the throat, so a creature in the seawolf's grasp cannot breathe, speak or cast spells with verbal components on any round the seawolf uses its constrict attack.

The victim will suffocate to death if the greater seawolf constricts them for long enough. Any breathing creature rendered unconscious by this attack must make Constitution checks every round for as long as the constriction continues (DC 10, +1 for each previous success). A victim who fails one of these Constitution checks drops to -1 hit points and is dying, if the victim fails a second check they die from suffocation.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a greater seawolf must hit an opponent with either it's seawolf form's bite attack or its humanoid form's unarmed strike attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Skills: A seawolf has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

The Greater Seawolf originally appeared in Monster Manual II (1983).

 

[freyar]

Other than adding DR, are these different than advanced Stormwrack Seawolfs in any way? There's no other distinction in 2e AFAICT.

 

[Cleon]

Other than adding DR, are these different than advanced Stormwrack Seawolfs in any way? There's no other distinction in 2e AFAICT.

They are Large size in seawolf form, don't have a hybrid form, and their speeds are different (Lesser Seawolves are faster on land than in water, Greater are slower on land than in water).

The rest of it is just better numbers (more HD, superior AC, higher damage), some of which could be covered by Advancement on a Stormwrack Seawolf.

 

[freyar]

Size can also be covered by advancement. I'm also not convinced they don't have a hybrid form. While it doesn't explicitly talk about the hybrid, it says they are, besides the size of their seawolf form, "otherwise identical to the lesser seawolf." I really have the feeling all the differences can be explained by advancement.

Maybe these are just worth an "underbar" type page, like a hazard.

 

[Cleon]

Size can also be covered by advancement. I'm also not convinced they don't have a hybrid form. While it doesn't explicitly talk about the hybrid, it says they are, besides the size of their seawolf form, "otherwise identical to the lesser seawolf." I really have the feeling all the differences can be explained by advancement.

Maybe these are just worth an "underbar" type page, like a hazard.

The Stormwrack Seawolf doesn't have size advancement.

As to the hybrid form question, the "is otherwise identical to the lesser seawolf" is in regards to its "monstrous form" of a seal-headed wolf, which is identical but larger. The Lesser Seawolf's "hybrid form" of a wolf man is described separately.

Furthermore, the AD&D version of the Lesser Seawolf has a claw/claw/bite routine it can use when in "wolfman" form which the Greater Seawolf lacks. If the Greater Seawolf had a hybrid form surely it would have claw attacks as well.

Finally, the 2E Greater Seawolf's description makes no mention of a hybrid form at all, but refers to a monstrous form and human form several times:

From Monstrous Manual Lycanthrope - Seawolf, Lesser No. of Attacks: 1 (3) Damage/Attack: 2d4 (1-2/1-2/1-4) The monstrous form of the lesser seawolf has the 6 to 7 foot long body of a seal. The head and shoulders are those of a wolf. In human form the lesser seawolves stand 5 to 6 feet tall. All are thickly muscled and have tiny ears and long hair that covers their head and shoulders like a mane. The lesser seawolf has a hybrid form of a wolfman, a humanoid shape that retains the seawolf’s teeth, claws, and fur; statistics for this form are given in parentheses above. Combat: Lesser seawolves approach a ship in seawolf form, then change into the hybrid form and climb aboard. There they use their teeth and claws to kill their opponents. Lycanthrope - Seawolf, Greater No. of Attacks: 1 or 2 Damage/Attack: 3-12 or 1-2 and by weapon type The monstrous form of the greater seawolf has a 12 to 15 foot long body, but is otherwise identical to the lesser seawolf. In human form, greater seawolves stand 6 to 7 feet tall. Combat: Greater seawolves assume their human forms to get close to their opponents. The typical plan is to bite or strangle one or two deckhands, take their weapons, and begin a general assault.

So, from the available evidence I'm pretty sure the AD&D Greater Seawolf doesn't have a hybrid form.

That said, I don't mind giving our Greater Seawolf conversion a hybrid form. It makes a great deal of difference to combat effectiveness, and will also distinguish it from the "Loup du Mer" variant of the Loup du Noir we just finished.

 

[Cleon]

From Monstrous Manual Combat: Greater seawolves assume their human forms to get close to their opponents. The typical plan is to bite or strangle one or two deckhands, take their weapons, and begin a general assault.

Hmm, that's interesting. A Greater Seawolf has a bite attack and can "strangle" opponents while in humanoid form.

Presumably it can curse an opponent with therianthropy by biting them while in human form.

Not sure how to represent the "strangle" attack. We could just give them improved grapple, maybe as a bonus feat when in humanoid form. Constrict and Improved Grab would seem a bit too far.

Come to think of it, if they had a hybrid form with lethal claws and teeth they wouldn't bother to kill the night watch and steal their weapons upon boarding a ship. That's another fact that argues the AD&D version can't become giant wolfmen...

...should we change that to wolffolk?
​

Of course, under the SRD Alternative Form rules they wouldn't need to steal weapons, since their equipment will merge into their seawolf form. So we'll need to change the tactics or change the Alternate Form so they lose their equipment.

 

[Cleon]

Okay, I'll edit the Greater Seawolf Working Draft to show what I had in mind. I'll indicate the changes from the Stormwrack Seawolf in red.

 

[freyar]

Well, I'm not terribly against doing a separate conversion.

But in that case, we should I guess drop the hybrid form, but it seems like the humanoid form is a hybrid-hybrid. That is, it has a bite attack and maybe some other special attacks. I'm not sure if strangling is supposed to be a special ability or just something like a thief could do. But we can make it a special attack; there are various garrotting rules and similar special attacks we can reference.

I'd much rather keep standard Alternate Form and change the tactics a bit, though.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I'm not terribly against doing a separate conversion.

I thought that was the idea!

But in that case, we should I guess drop the hybrid form, but it seems like the humanoid form is a hybrid-hybrid. That is, it has a bite attack and maybe some other special attacks. I'm not sure if strangling is supposed to be a special ability or just something like a thief could do. But we can make it a special attack; there are various garrotting rules and similar special attacks we can reference.

Last I checked, most humans have teeth, so it could be able to bite and punch in and still look human.

I'm not sure if strangling is supposed to be a special ability or just something like a thief could do. But we can make it a special attack; there are various garrotting rules and similar special attacks we can reference.

Well chances are it was just a throwaway line in the original and they expected the DM to use normal unarmed combat rules for the "strangling", but we don't have much in the way of abilities for the Seawolf, so I think it'd be nice to give them one or two.

I doubt it used a garotte though, since the original AD&D monster could not transform carried equipment, but only its body, so it would be stark naked and unarmed when it boards a ship. Well, I suppose if there was a bit of rope lying about it could strangle a watchman with that instead of using their hands.

I'd much rather keep standard Alternate Form and change the tactics a bit, though.

What did you have in mind? Just giving it weapons they meld into their bodies à la standard Alternate Form?

 

[freyar]

I had questions about whether these were worth a separate critter, though. Anyway....

Most humanoids don't have sharp enough teeth for bite attacks, though. Which is why I'd call it a hybrid-hybrid; it has some characteristics of a hybrid but looks mostly human.

I didn't actually mean using a garotte but cribbing from the garotting rules for a strangle attack.

Yes, I did mean standard Alternate Form.

 

[Cleon]

I had questions about whether these were worth a separate critter, though. Anyway....

Most humanoids don't have sharp enough teeth for bite attacks, though. Which is why I'd call it a hybrid-hybrid; it has some characteristics of a hybrid but looks mostly human.

We're still calling it a "humanoid form though" aren't we. If it only has wolf-sharp teeth it'll look human enough if it's careful about opening its mouth. It's certainly look a lot more like a humanoid than, say, a gnoll.

I didn't actually mean using a garotte but cribbing from the garotting rules for a strangle attack.

Those rules aren't in the SRD though, and I suspect they aren't OGL.

Come to think of it, where are the garrotting rules...

...ah, they're in Song and Silence.
​

Hmm, yes I can see some of the rules would be applicable. We can easily trim it down to be more manageable. Would you care to rough something up, or should I?

Yes, I did mean standard Alternate Form.

I'm fine with making it Alternative Form. It makes it a lot easier for them to attack ships if they can carry weapons aboard. The "Strangling" attack could still be handy for silently dealing with guards.

 

[freyar]

Yes, let's still call it the "humanoid form."

Garrotting rules are also revised for 3.5e in the Class Acts section of Dragon 355. Hmmm. Something like this?

Strangle (Ex): A greater seawolf in humanoid form that pins an opponent can strangle that opponent. The strangled opponent can hold its breath for two rounds per point of Constitution and afterwards must make Constitution saves to avoid suffocating (see the suffocation rules). A strangled opponent cannot attempt to pin the seawolf, speak, or cast spells with verbal components. The seawolf cannot take any other actions usually allowed while grappling as long as it maintains its strangle.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, let's still call it the "humanoid form."

Garrotting rules are also revised for 3.5e in the Class Acts section of Dragon 355. Hmmm. Something like this?

Strangle (Ex): A greater seawolf in humanoid form that pins an opponent can strangle that opponent. The strangled opponent can hold its breath for two rounds per point of Constitution and afterwards must make Constitution saves to avoid suffocating (see the suffocation rules). A strangled opponent cannot attempt to pin the seawolf, speak, or cast spells with verbal components. The seawolf cannot take any other actions usually allowed while grappling as long as it maintains its strangle.

I'd say it needs to say how much damage the seawolf does per strangling grapple check.

Also, I don't recall strangling requiring the attacker to pin their opponent - they just need to acquire a hold (touch & grapple check, with special mods if the target has "neck armour") then make another grapple check to start throttling.

Maybe the Dragon #355 version is different. It's been a while since I read that issue.

 

[freyar]

Huh. I just read the Dragon version and didn't bother looking up the 3.0e version in Song and Silence. Anyway, we can work that out. Does it need to do damage via strangulation? Suffocation is pretty bad already.

 

[Cleon]

Huh. I just read the Dragon version and didn't bother looking up the 3.0e version in Song and Silence. Anyway, we can work that out. Does it need to do damage via strangulation? Suffocation is pretty bad already.

The problem with suffocation is the 2 rounds per Con point it rakes before it kicks in. That's just way too long to be of any use in combat.

 

[freyar]

Well, I can see a couple of options. (1) Strangle is something it does in the secret outside of normal combat. (2) If we give it Imp Grab, it can do damage just by maintaining the grapple. Or we can reduce the number of rounds before the Con checks kick in. Hmmm. Shouldn't it be Constitution checks rather than Con saves?

 

[Cleon]

Well, I can see a couple of options. (1) Strangle is something it does in the secret outside of normal combat. (2) If we give it Imp Grab, it can do damage just by maintaining the grapple. Or we can reduce the number of rounds before the Con checks kick in. Hmmm. Shouldn't it be Constitution checks rather than Con saves?

I'd be fine just using Improved Grab & Constrict with a note that the Constrict prevents the victim breathing & speaking.

Oh, and it should be Constitution checks.