Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[Cleon]

Crossbows seem to fit better for mindless monsters, but I guess I can go with a composite bow. Their CR will probably be reasonable to go with that.

Crossbows or Javelins would be my next choice(s).

I'm having difficulty imagining them as mindless creatures, I'd like them better as dumb-but-malign minions of evil.

As for defiling, yes, I agree with killing or damaging all plants within 30 ft (plant creatures get a save).

We can just treat it like a 30 foot radius area-of-effect version of the blight spell - all Plant creatures take Xd6 damage (Fort save half), while "A plant that isn’t a creature doesn’t receive a save and immediately withers and dies."

 

[demiurge1138]

Crossbows have moving, complicated parts. Bows you pull back and fire. Javelins you just throw. So I'd prefer bows or javelins to crossbows.

 

[freyar]

Aren't crossbows simple weapons and bows martial weapons? I could go with javelins, though.

I think we're converging well on the defiling.

 

[Cleon]

So if I'm understanding this aright we've got one vote for crossbows and two votes for bows, but all three have javelins as a back-up choice.

Shall we compromise on javelins then?

Might as well start on some text for the defiling.

It'll need a name - how about "Defiling Rejuvenation" since it bears some resemblance to a Ghost's rejuvenation SQ.

How's this for a rough outline:

Defiling Rejuvenation: When a defiling skeleton is reduced to 0 hp, it collapses and becomes inert for one round. The next round, it draws life-force from all vegetation within a 30-foot radius, killing all normal plants within the area and doing W [6d6?] damage to Plant creatures (DC X Fort save for half). The obsidian jewel in the skeleton’s forehead glows brightly while this defiling of nearby plant life takes place. The save DC is [Charisma?]-based.

The next round the defiling skeleton rises up, restored to full hit points. Striking the skeleton while it is inert has no effect, nor does it delay the rejuvenating. Only the destruction of the jewel embedded in its forehead (AC Y, hp Z)[AC 13, hp 6?] or the successful application of a dispelling effect such as dispel magic or break enchantment can stop the rejuvenation. Defiling rejuvenation is considered an A [4th?] level spell with a Caster Level of B [8th?].

 

[freyar]

Javelins are fine.

Defiling Rejuvenation seems good, though 6d6 seems like a lot of damage for a 4HD monster. I guess most PCs won't be plants, so it's kind of a corner case, but I'd go for a lower value.

 

[Shade]

My vote's for javelins.

 

[Cleon]

Javelins are fine.

Defiling Rejuvenation seems good, though 6d6 seems like a lot of damage for a 4HD monster. I guess most PCs won't be plants, so it's kind of a corner case, but I'd go for a lower value.

Yes, it's only a placeholder.

My first thought was to make it 1d6 per Hit Dice, or 4d6, but then I thought the caster level should be higher than 4th so tweaked the damage up.

Upon reflection, 1d6/HD would be enough.

Charisma-based seems most appropriate, so I'll pencil that in.

Apart from that, it's just the toughness of the gem and the CL to figure out.

Should the gem have any hardness?

Caster level 4+HD would seem to fit - I'm thinking it's a strong ability. Although 2+HD would be decent too.

That reminds me - what happens when a defiling skeleton is turned? Does it have turn resistance? Does it reform if the cleric gets a "destroy" result? I'd prefer it if turning could destroy or prevent their Rejuvenation. We'd better add something in about turning, but I'm not quite sure what.

Anyhow, so far we've got:

Defiling Rejuvenation: When a defiling skeleton is reduced to 0 hp, it collapses and becomes inert for one round. The next round, it draws life-force from all vegetation within a 30-foot radius, killing all normal plants within the area. Plant creatures take 1d6 damage per hit dice the defiling skeleton possesses (DC X Fort save for half damage). The obsidian jewel in the skeleton’s forehead glows brightly while this defiling of nearby plant life takes place. The save DC is Charisma-based.

The next round the defiling skeleton rises up, restored to full hit points. Striking the skeleton while it is inert has no effect, nor does it delay the rejuvenating. Only the destruction of the jewel embedded in its forehead (AC Y, hp Z)[AC 13, hp 6?] or the successful application of a dispelling effect such as dispel magic or break enchantment can stop the rejuvenation. Defiling rejuvenation is considered an 4th? level spell with a Caster Level equal to 4 plus the skeleton's Hit Dice.

 

[Cleon]

I've been thinking a bit more about the Turning question.

How about we make the caster level of its Defiling Rejuvenation equal to its HD+turn resistance?

I'm also thinking we should add something to the effect "A defiling skeleton can not use defiling rejuvenation if its body is completely destroyed by a cleric's turn attempt, disintegrate spell or other means."

Plus, could we add that a successful turn attempt can prevent the defiling skeleton reviving?

Adding that in would produce something like:

Defiling Rejuvenation: When a defiling skeleton is reduced to 0 hp, it collapses and becomes inert for one round. The next round, it draws life-force from all vegetation within a 30-foot radius, killing all normal plants within the area. Plant creatures take 1d6 damage per hit dice the defiling skeleton possesses (DC X Fort save for half damage). The obsidian jewel in the skeleton’s forehead glows brightly while this defiling of nearby plant life takes place. The next round the defiling skeleton rises up, restored to full hit points. Striking the skeleton while it is inert has no effect, nor does it delay the rejuvenating. The save DC is Charisma-based.

A defiling skeleton can not use defiling rejuvenation if its body is completely destroyed by a cleric's turn attempt, disintegrate spell or the like. Such effects will cause its immediate and permanent destruction.

The destruction of the jewel embedded in the defiling skeleton's forehead (AC 13, hp 6) stops the rejuvenation, as does a successful application of turn undead or a dispelling effect such as dispel magic or break enchantment. Defiling rejuvenation is considered an 4th level spell with a Caster Level equal to the skeleton's Hit Dice plus its turn resistance (CL 8th for a standard defiling skeleton).

 

[freyar]

I think this is getting a bit complicated. For the middle paragraph, make it clear that the important point is destroying the gem. Let's merge it with the last paragraph:

"The destruction of the jewel embedded in the defiling skeleton's forehead (AC 13, hp 6) stops the rejuvenation. Similarly, the defiling skeleton cannot rejuvenate if it is destroyed by a cleric's turn attempt, disintegrate spell, or similar effect which destroys the gem. Such effects will cause its immediate and permanent destruction."

I think this should be Su, not Sp, so no CL, actually.

 

[Cleon]

I think this is getting a bit complicated. For the middle paragraph, make it clear that the important point is destroying the gem. Let's merge it with the last paragraph:

"The destruction of the jewel embedded in the defiling skeleton's forehead (AC 13, hp 6) stops the rejuvenation. Similarly, the defiling skeleton cannot rejuvenate if it is destroyed by a cleric's turn attempt, disintegrate spell, or similar effect which destroys the gem. Such effects will cause its immediate and permanent destruction."

I think this should be Su, not Sp, so no CL, actually.

The original version has dispel magic stop its defiling power so I would leave it in.

I agree it could do with simplifying the wording.

Just making any countermagic work automatically prevent rejuvenation makes it a lot simpler, and the original has dispel magic always work, or at least it doesn't mention a casting level.

How about:

Defiling Rejuvenation: When a defiling skeleton is reduced to 0 hp, it collapses and becomes inert for one round. The next round, it draws life-force from all vegetation within a 30-foot radius, killing all normal plants within the area. Plant creatures take 1d6 damage per hit dice the defiling skeleton possesses (DC X Fort save for half damage). The obsidian jewel in the skeleton’s forehead glows brightly while this defiling of nearby plant life takes place. The next round the defiling skeleton rises up, restored to full hit points. Striking the skeleton while it is inert has no effect, nor does it delay the rejuvenating. The save DC is Charisma-based.

The destruction of the jewel embedded in the defiling skeleton's forehead (AC 13, hp 6) stops the rejuvenation. The defiling skeleton cannot rejuvenate if its body is entirely destroyed by a cleric's turn attempt, disintegrate spell or similar effect, or if the jewel's magic is disrupted by a dispel magic spell or similar power while it is rejuvenating (no save or level-check required). Such effects will cause its immediate and permanent destruction.