Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

[Cleon]

Yeah, we can probably omit that part.

So change it to:

Haste (Su): A quick zombie is continuously accelerated as if it was under a haste spell (caster level 12th). This effect can be temporarily neutralized by a slow spell. A quick zombie that is unable to use its haste power has the following changes to its stats:

Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Slam +2 melee (1d8+1)
Full Attack: Slam +2 melee (1d8+1)
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +3

Shouldn't this one be a template/template modification?

Hmm, I like that idea. We could do a Quick Zombie Wyvern as a sample creature. Just the thing for the bad-guy-of-the-week to dash around on.

How about doing both. We can work out the standard "Human Commoner" and use that to figure out the template.

I'm wondering whether we shouldn't reduce the NA to +2 like a standard zombie and double the bonus from the Haste effect to +2 on attack, Reflex saves and dodge. A +1 just doesn't have much "oomph", and it means a slow spell would have a significant effect on its stats, e.g.:

Hasty Quick Zombie
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (+2 Dex, +2 dodge, +2 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d8+1)
Full Attack: Slam +4 melee (1d8+1)
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +4, Will +3

Slow Quick Zombie
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Slam +2 melee (1d8+1)
Full Attack: Slam +2 melee (1d8+1)
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +2, Will +3

What think you?

 

[Shade]

Let's stick to the +1 bonus, since haste is a standardized effect.

For added "oomph", I'd rather give 'em an additional slam attack (and thus 3 slam attacks with a full attack).

 

[Cleon]

Let's stick to the +1 bonus, since haste is a standardized effect.

For added "oomph", I'd rather give 'em an additional slam attack (and thus 3 slam attacks with a full attack).

I prefer them with 2 attacks, since that matches the original.

 

[Shade]

Is that "two attacks standard, three with haste", or "one standard, two with haste"?

I'd prefer two attacks, since most creatures with two arms have two slam attacks. Of course, most undead have only one slam attack, so I can see that approach as well, even if it makes no sense to me. (Are they slamming with both hands at once?)

 

[freyar]

Maybe they're chest-bumping?

I like the 2/3 slam attack routine, I think.

A template or a modification of the standard zombie would be ok (though I think a normal template works better here).

 

[Shade]

I agree. A full template is probably necessary, since they differ so much.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

+2 or +4 Dex.

Original speed was 60 feet.

 

[Cleon]

Is that "two attacks standard, three with haste", or "one standard, two with haste"?

I'd prefer two attacks, since most creatures with two arms have two slam attacks. Of course, most undead have only one slam attack, so I can see that approach as well, even if it makes no sense to me. (Are they slamming with both hands at once?)

I meant "one attack standard, two with haste". These are basically hasted zombies, and a standard Zombie only has 1 slam attack.

 

[Cleon]

Added to Homebrews.

+2 or +4 Dex.

Original speed was 60 feet.

I went for +4 Dex.

I don't much care for the wording of the slam attack. I would prefer it if it has its regular natural weapons OR a high-damage slam attack (1d8 for medium size), with an extra primary attack when full-attacking.

I'd also like to explicitly mention all the adjustments for its haste, just so we don't forget them.

e.g.:

Speed: due to the quick zombie's haste ability (see below), all of the base creature's modes of movement increase by 30 ft., to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement.

Armor Class: A quick zombie gains a +1 dodge bonus due to its haste ability (see below). Its natural armor bonus increases by a number based on the quick zombie's size:

Tiny or smaller +0
Small +1
Medium +2
Large +3
Huge +4
Gargantuan +7
Colossal +11

Attacks: A quick zombie gains a +1 attack bonus due to its haste ability (see below). It retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. A quick zombie gains a single slam attack it can use instead of the base creature's attacks.

Due to its haste ability, a quick zombie can make an additional attack when making a full attack. It always makes this additional attack with its primary weapon.

Damage: Natural and manufactured weapons deal damage normally. A slam attack deals damage depending on the quick zombie's size. (Use the base creature’s slam damage if it's better.)

Fine 1d2
Diminutive 1d3
Tiny 1d4
Small 1d6
Medium 1d8
Large 2d6
Huge 3d6
Gargantuan 4d6
Colossal 6d6

Saves: Base save bonuses are Fort +1/3 HD, Ref +1/3 HD, and Will +1/2 HD + 2. A quick zombie gains a +1 bonus on its Reflex saves due to its haste ability (see above).

 

[Shade]

I'll go for the +4 Dex and explicitly listing the haste attacks, but you're currently outvoted on the number of slam attacks.

Updated.