Speculation on the next UA in April

[FitzTheRuke]

So... because I'm bored waiting for it, let's do a speculative round on what we think the big arguments are going to be (These are absolutely speculative guess, nearly jokes):

1) I predict that (some) Warlock players are going to HATE the UA Warlock, which will have changed something (other than EB being a class feature, that will be generally liked) that people FREAK about. Mostly it will come down to Dips being Utterly Ruined.

2) The Monk will be much improved, but still somehow not quite hit the mark.

3) The fighter's base chassis will be much improved, but the Battlemaster will be nerfed to compensate. This will cause even more arguments regarding backwards compatibility and on how combining the 2014 Battlemaster with the 2024 Fighter will be totally broken! (Which will be reasonable, but of course, all you need to do to fix that is DON'T DO IT.)

What are yours?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The monk with the "spirit points" could introduce some elements of the psionic powers.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

So... because I'm bored waiting for it, let's do a speculative round on what we think the big arguments are going to be (These are absolutely speculative guess, nearly jokes):

1) I predict that (some) Warlock players are going to HATE the UA Warlock, which will have changed something (other than EB being a class feature, that will be generally liked) that people FREAK about. Mostly it will come down to Dips being Utterly Ruined.

2) The Monk will be much improved, but still somehow not quite hit the mark.

3) The fighter's base chassis will be much improved, but the Battlemaster will be nerfed to compensate. This will cause even more arguments regarding backwards compatibility and on how combining the 2014 Battlemaster with the 2024 Fighter will be totally broken! (Which will be reasonable, but of course, all you need to do to fix that is DON'T DO IT.)

What are yours?

1. Based on the new weapon qualities that were hinted at, if off-hand attacks as a bonus action are back for rogues and rangers (experts) and only (warriors) can benefit from off hand attacks being part of an attack action, that will cause friction. They already gave people a taste of that goodness in a previous packet. It'd be hard to get that juice back in the juice box.
2. I think each of the classes and subclasses will get updated/rearranged identity-defining abilities that match the new subclass level structure. If people disagree on those identities, that could cause friction.
3. Based on previous examples, I think the Fighter subclass will be the Champion, not the Battlemaster. Can they make the simple fighter subclass more interesting/effective? Same goes for all the other SRD-subclasses they seem to be sticking to. How will they measure up?

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

1. Based on the new weapon qualities that were hinted at, if off-hand attacks as a bonus action are back for rogues and rangers (experts) and only (warriors) can benefit from off hand attacks being part of an attack action, that will cause friction. They already gave people a taste of that goodness in a previous packet. It'd be hard to get that juice back in the juice box.

when we playtested it, I thought it waas too good to jsut get an extra attack for useing the weapon you wanted to use anyway, But we shall see.

1. I think each of the classes and subclasses will get updated/rearranged identity-defining abilities that match the new subclass level structure. If people disagree on those identities, that could cause friction.

I hope so, to make it be worth buying this new edition I want the classes to all get atleast tweaks

1. Based on previous examples, I think the Fighter subclass will be the Champion, not the Battlemaster. Can they make the simple fighter subclass more interesting/effective? Same goes for all the other SRD-subclasses they seem to be sticking to. How will they measure up?

sad face

 

[WanderingMystic]

Barbarian: With the changes made in Tasha's I am happy where the barbarian is, I just hope the Berserker class gets made playable. I really want more non mystical options for my barbarian.

Fighters: I really hope that they just fold maneuvers from battle master inot the core class. Even if it is only a few uses of it with the added manuvrs in Tasha's it goes a long way to giving fighters out of combat utility. Then just keep the battle masters as the archetype that focuses on manuvers.

Monks: I agree I think we will see an increase in durability but they need more to be a valuable option.

Sorcerer: As long as the Archetypes really fix the uncontrolled magic feel they want you the base class I think it will be fine.

Warlock: Getting your baby pact at level one I personally enjoy. It seems more thematic to get a book, familiar or weapon that slowly introduces you to your patron so that you don't realize that you have made a deal with the devil until you are lvl 3. The change to eldritch blast being a class ability is a necessity in my opinion. I just hope that blade is worth not using your Eldritch blast. Personally I would love it if your big pact influenced your Eldritch blast but I think I am in the minority in that one.

Wizard: Is is a fine if not kinda bland class I don't really see them doing much to change this.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I feel like whatever they do to the sorcerer will basically be washing its neck for the headsman's block of removal in 6e.

Sorcerer's entire deal was being a spont caster and now spont casting is dead.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I feel like whatever they do to the sorcerer will basically be washing its neck for the headsman's block of removal in 6e.

Sorcerer's entire deal was being a spont caster and now spont casting is dead.

Nah. I'm not worried about 11 years away for a 60th anniversary printing. I'm just looking at their plans for 2024, and they said they will be keeping all the PH classes.

Also, I think there are too many sorcerer fans, and as long the 2024 sorcerer can capture/redefine a proper identity that is supported by mechanics, then it is going to be just fine. If it is still a little shy, there is another decade to play around and figure it out.

 

[Vaalingrade]

as long the 2024 sorcerer can capture/redefine a proper identity that is supported by mechanics, then it is going to be just fine.

And that's why I'm sure it's going bye-bye next full edition when they've degraded it enough to be convinced they can.

Of course the minute they do everyone will suddenly remember hoe much they love the sorcerer and how it's not D&D without.

Time is a flat circle.

 

[The Shadow]

I think the sorcerer has a genuine niche as the bloodline users of magic, as opposed to the scholarly mages. I don't see it disappearing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think the sorcerer has a genuine niche as the bloodline users of magic, as opposed to the scholarly mages. I don't see it disappearing.

Agreed, but it has been proven that it's difficult to represent that mechanically in a way that's fair to both practicioners.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

when we playtested it, I thought it waas too good to jsut get an extra attack for useing the weapon you wanted to use anyway, But we shall see.

But... you still don't get your Ability Mod to damage. All it does to TWF is stop it from wasting your Bonus Action, which is good for Cunning Action and a few other things, but is hardly gamechanging.

I think the Fighter subclass will be the Champion, not the Battlemaster. Can they make the simple fighter subclass more interesting/effective? Same goes for all the other SRD-subclasses they seem to be sticking to. How will they measure up?

Yeah, that'll be interesting. I have high hopes for the Champion, actually. I like simple builds. A little more meat to it wouldn't hurt, though.

Barbarian: With the changes made in Tasha's I am happy where the barbarian is, I just hope the Berserker class gets made playable. I really want more non mystical options for my barbarian.

Shouldn't be hard at all to make the Berserker better than it is. It's always seemed like something that didn't quite work the way it was intended to.

I feel like whatever they do to the sorcerer will basically be washing its neck for the headsman's block of removal in 6e.

If they do anything with the Sorcerer in 6e, I hope it will be to make the arcane half-caster BLASTER that it was in the D&DNext playtest. Only 20 years too late!

I think there are too many sorcerer fans, and as long the 2024 sorcerer can capture/redefine a proper identity that is supported by mechanics, then it is going to be just fine. If it is still a little shy, there is another decade to play around and figure it out.

Exactly! Only, now I'm kind of interested in what they do to make it work for the next 10 years... maybe they'll point it in a new direction.

 

[The Shadow]

Agreed, but it has been proven that it's difficult to represent that mechanically in a way that's fair to both practicioners.

The very most I could see happening is it becoming a subclass of wizard. (Or both of them becoming subclasses of 'Mage' or something.)

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I think the sorcerer has a genuine niche as the bloodline users of magic, as opposed to the scholarly mages. I don't see it disappearing.

I agree about the current niche, however I think that they should move away from "bloodline" being the primary assumption for sorcery power, and focus more on being exposed to powerful magic (blood being but one possibility of many), like being present during a magical manifestation that unlocks the latent sorcerous potential in any creature that has a soulspark (like humanoids).

Let's let people multi-class into sorcery that is not bloodline-related. Want to multiclass into Sorcerer at a later level? Work with your DM to set up an encounter that can open that spark. Did you survive dragonfire, or get healed by a celestial couatl? Were you hit by a Beholder's ray that altered your reality slightly and opened you to the existence of mentalities beyond time and space? Stuff like that.

 

[Parmandur]

I think having access to metamagic is a potent niche, and I hope the new Sorcerer leans more into that.

I just finished reading the Stormlight Archive books to this time, and am doing a listen through of the Wheel of Time. I feel that the Knights Radiant are a great reference point for how Warlocks can work, and the Aes Sedai for Sorcerers.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree about the current niche, however I think that they should move away from "bloodline" being the primary assumption for sorcery power, and focus more on being exposed to powerful magic (blood being but one possibility of many), like being present during a magical manifestation that unlocks the latent sorcerous potential in any creature that has a soulspark (like humanoids).

Let's let people multi-class into sorcery that is not bloodline-related. Want to multiclass into Sorcerer at a later level? Work with your DM to set up an encounter that can open that spark. Did you survive dragonfire, or get healed by a celestial couatl? Were you hit by a Beholder's ray that altered your reality slightly and opened you to the existence of mentalities beyond time and space? Stuff like that.

When sorcerers were instituted back in 3e, I couldn't see them as anything but mutants/metahumans from a comics-style universe. We used to call them, "the mutant menace".

 

[The Shadow]

I agree about the current niche, however I think that they should move away from "bloodline" being the primary assumption for sorcery power, and focus more on being exposed to powerful magic (blood being but one possibility of many), like being present during a magical manifestation that unlocks the latent sorcerous potential in any creature that has a soulspark (like humanoids).

Let's let people multi-class into sorcery that is not bloodline-related. Want to multiclass into Sorcerer at a later level? Work with your DM to set up an encounter that can open that spark. Did you survive dragonfire, or get healed by a celestial couatl? Were you hit by a Beholder's ray that altered your reality slightly and opened you to the existence of mentalities beyond time and space? Stuff like that.

Sure, that makes sense to me. People who inherently magical in some way.

 

[Sir Brennen]

I agree about the current niche, however I think that they should move away from "bloodline" being the primary assumption for sorcery power, and focus more on being exposed to powerful magic (blood being but one possibility of many), like being present during a magical manifestation that unlocks the latent sorcerous potential in any creature that has a soulspark (like humanoids).

Let's let people multi-class into sorcery that is not bloodline-related. Want to multiclass into Sorcerer at a later level? Work with your DM to set up an encounter that can open that spark. Did you survive dragonfire, or get healed by a celestial couatl? Were you hit by a Beholder's ray that altered your reality slightly and opened you to the existence of mentalities beyond time and space? Stuff like that.

I don't see any reason a character couldn't multiclass into sorcerer after first level in the current rules. Sometimes the magic in one's bloodline takes a while to manifest.

But also, there's nothing preventing re-interpretation of a bloodline into some other source that gives the character their spider abilities innate magical powers. It's right there in the Sorcerer description: "Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces".

I think the problem is there too many sorcerer subclasses that heavily suggest a bloodline specifically, however, like the draconic lines. The Shadow Sorcerer at least mentions specifically your powers might be from either a creature of the Shadowfell, or exposure to its energies in some way.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

But... you still don't get your Ability Mod to damage. All it does to TWF is stop it from wasting your Bonus Action, which is good for Cunning Action and a few other things, but is hardly gamechanging.

That's just it, we never saw it as 'wasteing' infact it was a hard choice to Cunning action OR two weapon fight from turn to turn, and now the choice is "I can do both"

it feels like a free extra that wasn't needed

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

When sorcerers were instituted back in 3e, I couldn't see them as anything but mutants/metahumans from a comics-style universe. We used to call them, "the mutant menace".

we not only did this but we ran an Xmen light game that way

 

[FitzTheRuke]

That's just it, we never saw it as 'wasteing' infact it was a hard choice to Cunning action OR two weapon fight from turn to turn, and now the choice is "I can do both"

it feels like a free extra that wasn't needed

I play a LOT of rogues and while I never found that dilemma to be frustrating, I never found it to be interesting, either. OTOH, As a DM, I have had to remind rogue players that they couldn't disengage after attacking with two weapons. (Many of my players are either less experienced with the game or just more... casual about the rules than I am). I'd rather not have to do that. YMMV.