Spell focus + clerics

[James McMurray]

It all depends on how the DM takes the command. They could always just shout out "I charge you with the task of dying by my blade." and then continuing to hack you.

Just because Charge means one thing in the rules does not mean that it means the same in all In-Character situtaions.

Of course, when it works it'll be funny as heck.

 

[prodawg]

One of the nasty commands discussed before is "strip." However, one of my favorates is "defect."

 

[Johno]

For a first level cleric planning on being an offensive spelluser, I'd take Spellcasting Prodigy and Spell Focus:Enchantment.

Then Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment at 3rd level.

Spellcasting prodigy will, if your Wisdom is 18, grant you an extra 1st level spell (not to be sneezed at), and raise your Spell DCs by 1. As you can only take it at 1st level, it makes sense to postpone the Greater Spell Focus.

Hold Person will then have a DC of 21 (Base (10) + Spell Level (2) + Greater Spell Focus (4) + Wisdom modifier (5)).

 

[bensei]

Coming back to question:
If you find a school with a number of cleric spells that require a save (given you like that school), which has a comparable size as a school of wizard spells with saving throw, then I do not see any reason why being a cleric should make it less useful to take spell focus.
E.g. Necomancy should be a nice school for spell focus.

Of course it depends more on how you design your cleric flavorwise. A LG and peaceful cleric who heals and helps and tries to avoid combat should not have spell focus necomancy.

 

[Nightfall]

I have my own home brew concerning clerics and Spell Focus. Mainly that you can choose to use your Domain spells AS being spell focused. That way you get a broader array but still focused since it's only 9 spells. Greater Spell Focus also works that way for me.

 

[Oogar]

The talk about the "command" spell reminded me of someone I used to play with years ago. He tried to convince the DM that "Autocanibalize" would cause someone to try to take a bite of himself. The DM was pretty sure that most opponents just wouldn't understand.

 

[Al]

How about 'Autodecapitate'?

On Command, though, 'Die' is still the oldest and best. 'Flee' is all good, but bear in mind the 1 round duration. 'Flee' suddenly becomes a waste of time, doesn't it? 'Die', on the other hand, opens a nice coup de grace opportunity.

In general though, Spell Focus: Enchantment and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment aren't worth it. Yes, you can have DC 21 Hold Persons by 3rd level, but after HP there's little in the way of punitive Enchantment spells (other than Greater Command). Better bets are Evocation (which does for nearly all of the clerical direct damage spells, and good old Implosion for top-level fun) or Necromancy (which controls all the Inflict X Wounds family, and the instant death type spells such as Slay Living and Destruction).

On balance, it's probably not worth investing too much into Spell Foci. Perhaps one or two in Evocation and Necromancy, but the cleric has a lot of other feats to look at, and a limited number to get. You'll need to look at Metamagic, you'll want to look at Item Creation (to brew Potions of Cure Wounds and the like) and you may want to throw in a couple of combat-orientated feats (especially if you're a buff and go type assault cleric). If you can spare some for Spell Focus at the end of the day, go for it. But it's certainly not in the same priority league as it is for wizards or sorcerors.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Enchantment does also have Zone of Truth making it a useful non-combat spell focus as well. A cleric with a 22 wisdom and greater spell focus: enchantment will be casting DC 22 Zones of Truth without heighten spell. That's pretty useful if you ever have to worry about people lying to you.

Of course there aren't many clerical enchantments with saves after 2nd level so you might not want to go all the way with that feat chain.

 

[Pielorinho]

Cleric: "Betray!"
Victim: "My friend Liza wet her pants during a long bus ride in the third grade and she made me promise not to tell anyone ever!"

"Flee" is nice because it essentially bumps the duration up to two rounds: one to get away, and one to come back.
"Strip" is nice for opponents wearing heavy armor -- depending on DM's interpretation, it can really hamper them.

For flying opponents, "Dive!" is nice. Same thing for opponents standing near a sharp dropoff.

My rules for command, to prevent abuse, are:
1) The command must be an intransitive verb: "Betray" takes a direct object and won't work, but "Sleep" doesn't take a direct object and does work.
2) The verb must be active: "Burn" is something that happens to you, while "Jump" is something you do. "Die" is about as inactive a verb as you can choose.
3) The verb must be a real English word: "Matate," a Spanish word that means "Kill yourself," isn't a valid command. (I think that's the word -- it's been a long time since I've studied Spanish).

I do agree that spell focus makes a great feat for just about any spellcaster. For clerics, enchantment seems the best option. For druids, transmutation is probably the best, although evocation is also tempting.

Greater Spell Focus and spellcasting prodigy aren't allowed in our campaigns: they make spellcasters too too grotesque.

Daniel

 

[Squire James]

The problem with "Charge!" is that targets could charge the other way, or sideways, or only 10 feet. Or ask you for a credit card so they can fulfill your command. It's like using the word "set" in hopes they will set their spears against a charge (not that someone would use that for a Command spell, but bear with me)... there's 64 English definitions for the word (as every part of speech except preposition and pronoun, I might add)!

I too favor "action verbs", and if the verb is ambiguous (most of them are) the target should be allowed to interpret the command. For instance, an order to "Strip!" can be construed to mean one article of clothing or jewelry, target's choice. Not optimal.

If the foe is in melee (especially with rogues), "Run!" works nicely for drawing attacks of opportunity and forcing a loss of Dex bonus. No matter where they run. If not in melee, buy time with the classic "Halt!". Not much wiggle room in those commands.