D&D 5E Spell Scrolls: How Many Mystic Ciphers Are There?

[Hriston]

The poll option numbers are limited to spells in the PHB only.

Here are the rules for spell scrolls relevant to the discussion: A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible.

My question is: what's actually written on the scroll to make that true?

At first glance it would seem that each spellcasting class has its own cipher that only it understands, but that would require spells that are on multiple classes' spell lists to be written multiple times on any spell scrolls on which they appear so that all the classes which know them could read them.

My preferred solution is that there's a cipher for each group of spells that's known by a certain combination of classes. So for example, the group of 36 spells on both the Sorcerer and Wizard spell lists are written in a single cipher known only to sorcerers and wizards. Whereas, conjure fey is written in its own unique cipher known only to druids and warlocks.

It could also be true that each spell has its own unique cipher and that learning each spell involves learning the cipher for that spell. But that doesn't explain why a member of a spellcasting class can read spell scrolls of spells that are on their class's spell list but which they haven't learned yet.

Let me know what you think or if you have a more elegant solution to the problem.

 

[Rossbert]

I think of it less of a code and more of jargon. Each spell is written perfectly clearly if You already know the concepts involved.

I am reasonably smart and while I am comfortable reading an academic paper on biology, I might struggle but be passable with medical coding but have no idea what my mechanic or my software programming friend is talking about, beyond the most basic concepts (overlapping spells).

For each scroll they use shorthand and complex ideas that the various classes are familiar with to varying degrees. So the bard may have some idea of how divine magic and healing works, but just enough to understand the gist of cure wounds or restoration but something like divine favor of prayer of healing uses concepts, terms and abbreviations outside their education.

A cleric may understand the 'deification of spiritual brightness funneled through the 8th rite of the dawning presence' mentioned in sacred flame but when the scroll mentions quantum-spatial thermocyclic containment parameters, they have no idea what that is or how to apply it, so they don't get to cast fireball.

It isn't intended as a code specifically, but the knowledge required makes it unusable, especially in pressure setting.

 

[gyor]

That is great question. I have give some thought into this.

 

[Satyrn]

I'm only posting this comment because my response is obscured by being in the Other option of the poll.

It doesn't matter to me in the least.

 

[jaelis]

I know this is kind of cliched but... it's magic. Why should we expect it to work in a logical way?

 

[StormbringerAUS]

Agreed this is a good question if only from a theoretical point of view and gives us something to think about and discuss.

One for each spell does not make sense at least to me as then a caster would have to know every cipher needed for their class.

As someone stated one for each spell casting class means that for a scroll to be used by different classes it would have to have two ciphers, which does not make sense when the scroll is created as you would need someone from each class to be available to place the correct cipher.

The cipher for overlapping classes again seems strange meaning they all have to work together to come up with these.

To either the scroll cipher is only for the class that created it or as I would play it - doesn't matter because it is magic and its just works.

 

[Hriston]

I think of it less of a code and more of jargon. Each spell is written perfectly clearly if You already know the concepts involved.

I am reasonably smart and while I am comfortable reading an academic paper on biology, I might struggle but be passable with medical coding but have no idea what my mechanic or my software programming friend is talking about, beyond the most basic concepts (overlapping spells).

For each scroll they use shorthand and complex ideas that the various classes are familiar with to varying degrees. So the bard may have some idea of how divine magic and healing works, but just enough to understand the gist of cure wounds or restoration but something like divine favor of prayer of healing uses concepts, terms and abbreviations outside their education.

A cleric may understand the 'deification of spiritual brightness funneled through the 8th rite of the dawning presence' mentioned in sacred flame but when the scroll mentions quantum-spatial thermocyclic containment parameters, they have no idea what that is or how to apply it, so they don't get to cast fireball.

It isn't intended as a code specifically, but the knowledge required makes it unusable, especially in pressure setting.

Okay, but that isn't a straightforward gloss on the word cipher then, is it? A cipher is a code, or at the very least a secret way of writing, the meaning of which is known only to those who possess the key. Compare, for example, the use of the word in the Linguist feat, where it's interchangeable with the word code. Also, I think it's clear from the passage from the DMG I posted in the OP that the barrier to comprehending the scroll is the cipher itself, not a lack of familiarity with the subject matter of the words written in the cipher. If the spell is on your class's spell list, you can break the code and only then do you get at the subject matter.

Now I like the idea you bring up of certain spells falling into areas of knowledge that overlap between classes. I think grouping those spells under a mystic cipher points toward the idea that only certain ciphers are capable of recording specific types of magic. Clerics, druids, and sorcerers, for example, have access as a group to a type of "natural disaster" magic that allows then to cast insect plague, fire storm, and earthquake. Clerics, druids, and wizards, on the other hand, have access as a group to a different type of magic that gives them control over natural forces when they cast control water, stone shape, and control weather.

 

[Rossbert]

Okay, but that isn't a straightforward gloss on the word cipher then, is it? A cipher is a code, or at the very least a secret way of writing, the meaning of which is known only to those who possess the key. Compare, for example, the use of the word in the Linguist feat, where it's interchangeable with the word code. Also, I think it's clear from the passage from the DMG I posted in the OP that the barrier to comprehending the scroll is the cipher itself, not a lack of familiarity with the subject matter of the words written in the cipher. If the spell is on your class's spell list, you can break the code and only then do you get at the subject matter.

Now I like the idea you bring up of certain spells falling into areas of knowledge that overlap between classes. I think grouping those spells under a mystic cipher points toward the idea that only certain ciphers are capable of recording specific types of magic. Clerics, druids, and sorcerers, for example, have access as a group to a type of "natural disaster" magic that allows then to cast insect plague, fire storm, and earthquake. Clerics, druids, and wizards, on the other hand, have access as a group to a different type of magic that gives them control over natural forces when they cast control water, stone shape, and control weather.

You aren't wrong, I guess I just tend to think of a 'cipher' being intentionally obscure to hide something instead of more like music notation or math where it is written as clearly and concisely as can be for the idea being conveyed.

 

[Lancelot]

I voted "other", and I'm with Rossbert above. I think scrolls are written is a single magical language. Anyone with a familiarity with the language can read it, but you might not understand the concepts written.

For example, a wizard can tell that a cure wounds scroll is a healing magic, but they can't quite understand the fundamentals of manipulating body and spirit in such a delicate and combined way. Without that practical training, they might be able to read each and every sigil on the scroll - just as I could read every English word in an advanced discussion on quantum physics - but they're still not going to be able to summarize the document or form a conclusion.

 

[Hriston]

I know this is kind of cliched but... it's magic. Why should we expect it to work in a logical way?

I think we should expect it to work the way the description of the item says it does. The item description says if you're a member of a class that has the spell on its list, you can read the scroll. Otherwise, you can't because it's written in a code you don't understand. I think that's a fairly direct paraphrase. Because magic's involved, exactly how this is happening is pretty open-ended. You could say, for instance, that the code magically unscrambles itself in response to a member of one of the correct classes trying to read it. I'm open to suggestions.

And I'll admit to making an assumption. I assume the mystical cipher operates similarly to other cipher-like elements in the game, such as codes created with the Linguist feat, Druidic, and Thieves' Cant. These "secret codes", in turn, function for the most part as languages. If someone knows the code, cipher, or language, they can receive the information it contains. So I'm assuming that belonging to a spellcasting class necessarily involves having knowledge that allows you to understand one or more mystical ciphers, and that other spellcasters aren't able to break the same code(s) because they don't have the same spells on their spell lists. So I think knowing how to read this or that cipher is something about the character, and that doesn't mean the "how" can't be something magical the character's doing.