Spellcaster Prestige Classes: Balanced?

[the Jester]

I think they tend to be overpowered unless they have some sort of drawback built in (like the alienist).

 

[Xarlen]

-Snip-
.

Touche.

How about knocking it down to 4 sneak attack progressions, and 6 or 7 +1 caster levels (On alternating levels, mind you so they get something every time), and maybe a little something else for compensation?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Touche.

How about knocking it down to 4 sneak attack progressions, and 6 or 7 +1 caster levels (On alternating levels, mind you so they get something every time), and maybe a little something else for compensation?

That sort of thing is, in my opinion, a good way to handle it.

The player who wanted to play a Hospitaller - I offered him full BAB or full spell progression, but not both. He decided caster level was more important than BAB.

When you consider that the only PHB casters who get full BAB progression have a caster level equal to half their paladin/ranger level, for a PrC to get both is just Wrong.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

This is one of the few things I kinda blame Monte Cook over. Most of his example Prc's I'm okay with, but the loremaster is almost a free ride for a sorcerer

In this particular instance, I disagree. The loremaster is not "almost a free ride" for the sorcerer.

- Seven divination spells, including one at 3rd level, is a hefty prerequisite when you have a limited number of spells to start with. That's unless you don't mind foregoing a big chunk of your potential firepower.

- 10 ranks in each of two Knowledge skills is possibly even tougher, since only Knowledge (arcana) is a class skill for sorcs. They could multiclass, but that cuts into their caster level, which is a no-no.

- The feat requirements are also hefty since they don't have any bonus feats to start with. In fact, a non-human sorc can't be a loremaster before 10th level, because they'll need four feats.

Who it _could_ be a free ride for is clerics, because they bypass the first prereq entirely, and maxing out on Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (religion) shouldn't be hard.

 

[dravot]

Touche.

How about knocking it down to 4 sneak attack progressions, and 6 or 7 +1 caster levels (On alternating levels, mind you so they get something every time), and maybe a little something else for compensation?

Which is pretty much what I was suggesting

 

[hong]

Now, admittedly, the AT gets fewer skill points than a rogue. But its SA progresses just as fast as the rogue, and on top of that, it has a full spellcasting progression.

But it does also have lower BAB progression than a rogue, or even an evenly multiclassed wizard/rogue. One of the possible objectives of a prestige class is to make otherwise-weak concepts viable. The question here is whether you consider a wizard/rogue, with levels evenly split, to be a weak concept in need of buffing up.

 

[aurellius]

In fighter prestige classes many of them maintain fighter bab and gain special abilities, which are basicly just his regular feats he would get but pre chosen for him.


In spellcasting classes they get their normal bab and then special abilities, but on a skill point and feat for feat basis many times it is much more expensive for a caster to gain a prestige class. Also the base classes Sorc and Wiz do NOT have enough built in benefits to lose. Even clerics have not much to lose by taking a prestige class if undead are not a campaign fixture.

Marcus

 

[kigmatzomat]

This is one of the few things I kinda blame Monte Cook over. Most of his example Prc's I'm okay with, but the loremaster is almost a free ride for a sorcerer and a complete no-brainer for a diviner.

I'm not sure how the Loremaster can be such a "gimme" for a sorceror. By my take, they have to be 17th level to qualify based on the two knowledges at rank 10. Even assuming one is Arcana, they'll have blown 3/4th their base skill points (30 out of 40) on these two skills alone.

Furthermore, IIRC, in the Epic levels you don't qualify for any epic class feats until you get Sorceror> 20 or Loremaster >10. Which is better: Loremaster secrets every other level or Epic feats every third? Hard choice, that.

It is easier for a cleric since they can use Knowledge Arcana and Religion as their two pre-reqs. But then they trade d8 hp for d4, lose turning ability, and get a crappy BAB.

The fact is that over 10 levels a wizard only loses 2 metafeats and the familiar advancement. He gains bardic lore, two useful innate spells (with expensive material components/foci!), two languages, two points of Will save, and 5 specials (each equivalent to about half a feat). Net gain is very high and the entry level is the lowest possible: 7th level. They only need to spend 2 character-level feats as scribe scroll and the 5th level wizard feat count as prereqs.

Unless I did something stupid on the skill points, Loremaster was destined for wizards.

Now apologize to Monte Cook.

 

[Spatula]

This is one of the few things I kinda blame Monte Cook over. Most of his example Prc's I'm okay with, but the loremaster is almost a free ride for a sorcerer and a complete no-brainer for a diviner.

Using one of your feats on Skill Focus: Knowledge is a no brainer? And, as others have mentioned, a single-class sorcerer can't qualify until very high levels because of the skill requirements.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And, as others have mentioned, a single-class sorcerer can't qualify until very high levels because of the skill requirements.

'course, there's always Educated, Cosmopolitan, and Versatile...

-Hyp.