Spellcaster Prestige Classes: Balanced?

[ConcreteBuddha]

'course, there's always Educated, Cosmopolitan, and Versatile...

-Hyp.

'course those came out after the DMG, so we can't really fault the Loremaster, now can we...?

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

There is something that casters give up when qualifying for +1 caster level PrCs: feats and skill points. Granted, skills are not really worth much in the grand scheme of things, especially to casters.

Feats, OTOH, are extremely important. I have no problem with classes that use less-than-desirable feats as prereqs. Where I am cautious is all of the PrCs that have good feats as prereqs; Feats that a caster would want to take anyway.

All of those PrCs, I like to throw out the window.

 

[Hypersmurf]

'course those came out after the DMG, so we can't really fault the Loremaster, now can we...?

Oh, I'm not faulting the Loremaster for anything... just pointing out that these days sorcerers can qualify as early as wizards...

edit: Well, not quite - wizards make the feat requirements faster.

-Hyp.

 

[Apok]

Oh, I'm not faulting the Loremaster for anything... just pointing out that these days sorcerers can qualify as early as wizards...

Yes but, as Hong stated, the prereqs hurt Sorcs alot more than wizards. Feats are an extremely precious resource and to use one to meet the skill prereqs of a PrC as opposed to some other feat that can enhance your spellcasting is a serious decision.

 

[LokiDR]

Why must it be +1 spellcaster level?

Why most of the PrC that improve casting add +1 caster level? isn't there more to caster than that?

How about this for a PrC: the versitile
* +1 caster level every even level
* +1 caster level check every odd level
* Ring of wizardry N every even level, up to 5 if you prepare spells
* 1.5 times spells known for level N every even level for spontanous caster
* maybe a metamagic/item creation feat choice

You give up higher level spells, but you get something you may value much more. You wouldn't have to worry so much about SR and dispelling checks. Ring of wizardry for wizards adds up to 4 spells max. 1.5 x spells known for sorcerors is only 4 1st level IIRC. Some of the numbers might be different, but you get the idea.

This is the concept I see for a lot of fighter PrCs: focus on one area and give up something else. I don't think they do a good job focusing the arcane PrC. They either are weak (5/10 caster bonus) or too strong (10/10 caster bonus + more than a wizard would of had).

 

[Apok]

Now, admittedly, the AT gets fewer skill points than a rogue. But its SA progresses just as fast as the rogue, and on top of that, it has a full spellcasting progression.

They also loose out on the high-level Rogue abilities, which are nothing to sneeze at, especially if you consider the fact that they are prereqs for some amazing epic level feats.

The Arcane Trickster is a PrC that makes a bad character class combo worthwhile. Going Rogue/Wizard means you loose out on either spellcasting progression or Sneak Attack dice and skills, making your character less effective than a single class character in the long run. The AT makes the concept viable, and need I mention the rather stringent requirements? I think you have to be at least 8th or 9th level before being eligible.

Making bad class combos viable is one thing I think more PrCs should focus on.

 

[Xarlen]

Making bad class combos viable is one thing I think more PrCs should focus on.

Like the Spellsword?

 

[Apok]

There is something that casters give up when qualifying for +1 caster level PrCs: feats and skill points. Granted, skills are not really worth much in the grand scheme of things, especially to casters.

Feats, OTOH, are extremely important. I have no problem with classes that use less-than-desirable feats as prereqs. Where I am cautious is all of the PrCs that have good feats as prereqs; Feats that a caster would want to take anyway.

All of those PrCs, I like to throw out the window.

If the prerequisite feats make sense for the concept of the PrC, why the hell should it matter weather they are "good" or not?

 

[Hypersmurf]

They also loose out on the high-level Rogue abilities, which are nothing to sneeze at, especially if you consider the fact that they are prereqs for some amazing epic level feats.

Yeah - to be fair, the AT doesn't bother me like some of the pure caster PrCs do.

-Hyp.

 

[LokiDR]

If the prerequisite feats make sense for the concept of the PrC, why the hell should it matter weather they are "good" or not?

Should classes be created that appropriate, or that are ballanced? If it takes some strange pre-reqs for a class to be ballanced, I think the rules should do it.