D&D 5E Spellcasting Using the Recharge Mechanic

[Micah Sweet]

The possibility to roll a 1 and block casting until a rest is too punishing.

For a 5th level caster, recharge on 5-6, can make you cast one spell a fight including cantrip, very often. Considering fight lasting 3-4 rounds, really easy to roll under 5 few times in a row and be block for the rest of the fight.

The fun for a caster is to cast spell, not roll high on recharge dice!

Disagree. The fun of playing a PC is playing that PC. It shouldn't be dependent on being able to use your oh-so-cool superpowers every turn, IMO.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

For example, at 7th level if you cast fireball, your recharge number is 6. If you don't roll a 6 on your next turn, you can't cast any spell of any spell level.

ah ok, got it. I thought that each spell level had its own recharge roll.

 

[Voadam]

Do things other than casting spells. This might be weapon attacks, using the Help or other actions, or using magical items.

Which is entirely the point. If you enjoy slinging around cantrips and spells every round--having magic so prevalent in your game--this isn't for you.

In 1e there was sort of a flip in caster style as they progressed. At low levels they were a weak person with either really strategic per day spells (sleep) or they could even have no really useful combat spells at all. They avoided melee and sometimes poorly threw small things (daggers, darts, flask of oil). As they advanced their spell resources improved so they could cast more in combat, and usually at some point they got something like a 100 charge wand to use magic every combat round. There was a flip point where high level magic users became really powerful with a lot of resources nobody else could really match in or out of combat.

This system seems to aim to turn the wizard/sorcerer/warlock into the low level OSR MU model across all levels. In 5e wands and such do not seem designed to take over the same combat magic spamming role that they had in mid-high level AD&D since they have fewer charges (though with the built in recharge feature). In a mid to high level combat it looks to me like a sorcerer might expect to get off his first spell definitely, then probably one or two more over a five round combat (with about one in six combats being one spell only because of a 1 on the recharge roll before recharging).

 

[Voadam]

What did they do back in the day? Use a crossbow, or a staff, or a dagger. To demand magical pew-pew ad infinitum is really starting to feel like entitlement from my perspective.

That being said, I'm supporting a possible optional rule here, not demanding anyone's game use it.

I think for genre feel a sorcerer throwing a d4 damage spell is better than a mechanically equivalent throwing of a d4 dagger or dart. Since the structural mechanical incentives is for a 1e low level magic-user to contribute to a fight by throwing small damage things a short distance, I would prefer it was narratively flavored more appropriately.

I really hated the narrative feel of 3e crossbow casters. I thought the development of combat cantrips was a superior narrative option.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think for genre feel a sorcerer throwing a d4 damage spell is better than a mechanically equivalent throwing of a d4 dagger or dart. Since the structural mechanical incentives is for a 1e low level magic-user to contribute to a fight by throwing small damage things a short distance, I would prefer it was narratively flavored more appropriately.

I really hated the narrative feel of 3e crossbow casters. I thought the development of combat cantrips was a superior narrative option.

But its not just narrative. With infinite cantrips, they now have an infinite, magical attack (which circumvents resistance to nonmagical attacks), with a damage type likely to be favorable straight out if character creation.

And that's just the attack cantrips. The out of combat ones, like Mage Hand, are just as bad.

 

[Voadam]

I find OSR/3e MU mechanical designs tends to incentivize making a first level dungeon crawling wizard who looks like this:

or this

Instead of something like

 

[Micah Sweet]

I find OSR/3e MU mechanical designs tends to incentivize making a first level dungeon crawling wizard who looks like this:

View attachment 270005

or this
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Instead of something like
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I don't disagree, but I also don't see it as a bad thing.

 

[Clint_L]

I'd be interested in hearing how it works out. My gut reaction is to be cautious around things that can randomly prevent players from using their core ability because with a bit of bad luck I can see a magic user being unable to cast any spells in a fight, which doesn't seem like a super fun experience for that player, and it won't be their fault.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Do you give casters some other sort of benefit to make up for the loss of their assumed default power level that is based on being able to cast a spell every round? If not, do you reduce the power level of non-casters in some way also? Or do you consider casters are too powerful compared to non-casters and this produces a better balance? Or do you feel they are balanced, but want casters to be weaker than non-casters? Just trying to see what the desired goal is regarding maintaining or adjusting relative balance between casters and non-casters.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

If you roll a 1 on the recharge, you cannot cast any spells until you finish a short or long rest.

Ooooof, so what there's a 16.67% chance you just lose all spellcasting? That seems... extreme. Do you use 1hr short rests?

Casting spells of 6th level or higher are limited to once per long rest (akin to Mystic Arcanum).

All spells? Like you get 1 6th level spell per LR? Or each? If it's each, doesn't that massively advantage preparation casters whilst being extremely bad for Sorcerers/Bards?

As a general question, how do you handle out of combat and between combat?

You can reduce the recharge number by 1 on subsequent attempts if you want to recover your magic sooner.

How though?

 

[Voadam]

I don't disagree, but I also don't see it as a bad thing.

I don't mind different one offs and individuals, but my core wizard/sorcerer archetypes I prefer to be more magic than weapon focused so for me more the guy on the left with magic hands than the guy on the right with a drawn dagger. Combat cantrips mechanically support that flavor preference better for me.

 

[Maxperson]

Some current options:

1. If you cast a spell of your tradition school, domain spells, etc. you make your recharge roll with advantage.
2. You can reduce the recharge number by 1 on subsequent attempts if you want to recover your magic sooner.
3. Casting spells of 6th level or higher are limited to once per long rest (akin to Mystic Arcanum).
4. If you roll a 1 on the recharge, you cannot cast any spells until you finish a short or long rest.

There are many pros and cons to such system, depending on what you want in your game. I am meeting tomorrow to discuss it with my group and get their thoughts, but I figured I would throw it out on the forum to get other thoughts.

I'm not tied to this idea yet in any real way, but think it (or a variant) might work. Feel free to leave any comments, concerns, or questions.

My main concern is #4. It seems like a bad roll, which is easy on a d6, can cause you to be unable to cast multiple higher level spells which you could have cast a second ago, just because you rolled a 1 to recharge a 2nd level spell.

There are a few ways you could alter it to make it a bit more fair.

1. Enact something like the psionic die where spellcasters get the ability to ignore a bad roll, perhaps gaining an additional get out of bad roll free card at 11th and 20th levels.
2. Make it so that you only lose the ability to cast the spell you failed to recharge. Perhaps magical energies(plural) vary by spell and just because you depleted an energy vital to casting sleep, doesn't mean that you cannot still cast magic missile.

 

[Voadam]

2. Make it so that you only lose the ability to cast the spell you failed to recharge. Perhaps magical energies(plural) vary by spell and just because you depleted an energy vital to casting sleep, doesn't mean that you cannot still cast magic missile.

Alternately the 1 affects that spell level.

"Darn! My second level chakra is blocked up! This will be tougher with just first and third levels as options to work with."

 

[DND_Reborn]

I don't disagree, but I also don't see it as a bad thing.

Agreed.

I'd be interested in hearing how it works out. My gut reaction is to be cautious around things that can randomly prevent players from using their core ability because with a bit of bad luck I can see a magic user being unable to cast any spells in a fight, which doesn't seem like a super fun experience for that player, and it won't be their fault.

Ooooof, so what there's a 16.67% chance you just lose all spellcasting? That seems... extreme.

My main concern is #4. It seems like a bad roll, which is easy on a d6, can cause you to be unable to cast multiple higher level spells which you could have cast a second ago, just because you rolled a 1 to recharge a 2nd level spell.

Again, I need to point out the whole "no magic on a 1" is a current OPTION to discuss, try out, see how it works, etc. and play with. It might remain, it might get tossed out, it might get revised. I am aware of the potential pitfalls, but until I try it out, I won't know how it plays out. We'll see.

However, extreme is part of the point. Don't use magic unless you have to use it, otherwise the price might be steeper than you intended.

Do you give casters some other sort of benefit to make up for the loss of their assumed default power level that is based on being able to cast a spell every round? If not, do you reduce the power level of non-casters in some way also? Or do you consider casters are too powerful compared to non-casters and this produces a better balance? Or do you feel they are balanced, but want casters to be weaker than non-casters? Just trying to see what the desired goal is regarding maintaining or adjusting relative balance between casters and non-casters.

Great questions! So, I'll answer each in turn:

Do you give casters some other sort of benefit to make up for the loss of their assumed default power level that is based on being able to cast a spell every round? Other than Wizards, they already have them:

Clerics: good weapons and armor selection, channel divinity, other subclass features
Druids: wildshape and non-spell subclass features (depending on choice, but IME wildshape is enough, YMMV)
Bards: where to begin... even with demoting them to half-casters
Paladins: great weapons and armor, healing, innate features
Rangers: great weapons and good armor, exploration, etc.
Sorcerers and Warlocks are not part of this since they are subclasses of Wizard and Cleric, respectively, in my house-rules.

For Wizards, to represent their superior spellcasting ability, can use Arcane Recovery as an action to remove a roll of 1 and regain their magic.
(That is the current rendition at least--but like all of this subject to change.)

If not, do you reduce the power level of non-casters in some way also?
No, they are the same.

Or do you consider casters are too powerful compared to non-casters and this produces a better balance?
Yes, I do in many ways and this should help immensely IMO. It has good aspects and bad ones, but in general it makes magic "risky" to cast since you could deprive yourself of further magic until you get in a rest.

Or do you feel they are balanced, but want casters to be weaker than non-casters?
I don't feel casters are terribly out of balance, especially at lower levels. It is a minor goal to bring things more into balance however.

Just trying to see what the desired goal is regarding maintaining or adjusting relative balance between casters and non-casters.
The main goal is to make a low-magic setting/rule-set. Additional house-rules will make for a gritty game as well. A low-magic setting by default will reduce the power-level of casters, helping to adjust the balance to a point I find more even.

Another goal is it takes the "automatic" out of magic in some ways. I think casters being able to rely on 1-2 spells per encounter reasonable, but at mid and higher levels I don't want them having so many spells they can know they can toss spells out round after round.

Too much magic makes the game less magical to me because it ceases to be special.

There are a few ways you could alter it to make it a bit more fair.

1. Enact something like the psionic die where spellcasters get the ability to ignore a bad roll, perhaps gaining an additional get out of bad roll free card at 11th and 20th levels.

No, that just complicates things. I am considering two options if you roll a 1, losing magic until you rest:

1. You can regain magic by gaining a level of exhaustion.
2. You can regain magic by spending a number of HD equal to the spell level of the last spell cast.
3. You can spend a HD to try again to recharge.

2. Make it so that you only lose the ability to cast the spell you failed to recharge. Perhaps magical energies(plural) vary by spell and just because you depleted an energy vital to casting sleep, doesn't mean that you cannot still cast magic missile.

Also too complicated and involves tracking which spells you failed on and cannot cast again.

 

[Maxperson]

Again, I need to point out the whole "no magic on a 1" is a current OPTION to discuss, try out, see how it works, etc. and play with. It might remain, it might get tossed out, it might get revised. I am aware of the potential pitfalls, but until I try it out, I won't know how it plays out. We'll see.

No, I fully understood that.

You asked for opinions and concerns, so I expressed concern for the one I feel will be too harsh and gave some options for you to try out if you want.

 

[Andvari]

Could be interesting facing a powerful monster spell caster who rolls a 1 on its first recharge attempt.

 

[Argyle King]

I'm not sure if this will fit into your idea, but I ran a game a while back in which an area of the world had corrupted magic.

In that particular game, I was not using a recharge mechanic. But there were risks to casting higher level spells. However, there were things that could be done to lower the risk. Perhaps some of the steps involved in lowering risk in my game could be optional methods for recharge in your game to be easier.

Things which casters might do to make recharge easier:
•taking extra time to cast
•working together with another caster who also knows the spell (for each extra caster involved, the recharge number is 1 higher)
•having an arcane focus or holy symbol
•spending a hit die

 

[DND_Reborn]

Things which casters might do to make recharge easier:
•taking extra time to cast
•working together with another caster who also knows the spell (for each extra caster involved, the recharge number is 1 higher)
•having an arcane focus or holy symbol
•spending a hit die

Good suggestions, thanks!

 

[Smythe the Bard]

•having an arcane focus or holy symbol

Expendable or reusable options too.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

What did they do back in the day? Use a crossbow, or a staff, or a dagger. To demand magical pew-pew ad infinitum is really starting to feel like entitlement from my perspective.

I legit do not understand how. The fantasy of being a spellcaster is to cast spells. That's why we call them "spellcasters" and not...whatever else one might call them.