Spot and Cover
- Thread starter Davek
- Start date
What about if the characters are walking along the forest floor, minding their own business without a care in the world, and the BBEG comes along with his owl familiar looking for them. Let say the forest provides about 75% cover from the eyes of the owl, that is flying only 60 feet above them.
Are you saying that if they are not actually 'hiding' they are as easy to spot as if they were out in the open? I do not want to ask them to make a hide roll, as then they will suspect something is going on.
Are you saying that if they are not actually 'hiding' they are as easy to spot as if they were out in the open? I do not want to ask them to make a hide roll, as then they will suspect something is going on.
Korak
First Post
Davek said:
Since there is concealment in the situation, it would be reasonable to assume they are taking 0 on their hide check. The concealment doesn't modify the spot check; it makes a spot check necessary.
So, have the BBEG and his owl make spot checks with a DC = the PCs hide modifier, further modified by distance.
BTW, this is my interpretation based on memory with no RAW reference. I offer it as a suggestion, not as canon.
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Korak said:
The problem with that is that tow characters walking casually in the forest. One a Rogue with 13 Hide modifier. The other Wizard with 0 Hide modifier. Even though they are walking together with no implicit attempt to hide, now the rogue is spoted on a 13 + 6 (60' up as per original example) or on a 19 + spot roll. The wizard would be spoted on a 6+ spot roll. That doesn't realy make sense to me. If the target is not taking any actions then the appropriate skill should not come into play.
I was thinking of using the cover AC modifiers as DC modifers, ie. +2 for 25%/+4 for 50%/+7 for 75%/+10 for 90%. Would this be to much, too little, or just right?
Any intentional hiding would then be applied on top of the basic DC (as determined by distance and cover/concealment or any other environmental considerations)
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Artoomis
First Post
Davek said:
Actually, spotting wizard easier than the rogue makes perfect sense. the rogue dresses to blend in all the time, the wizard does not. The rogue instinctively uses the overhead cover/concealment while the wizard does not. Make perfect sense, really.
However, I agree with the DC modifiers you propose as making good sense as a circumstance modifier that only applies when not actively attempting to hide. Unfortunately, this could easily have the effect of making it harder for the wizard to hide than when they aren't even trying, because the hide skill has no modifier for cover/concealment.
Hmmmm.....
Artoomis said:
I would just use this mechanic for determining the base DC to spot. If someone were actively hiding, their hide roll would add their skill + the basic DC to the roll, for the opposed hide/spot rolls. Yes this would almost always give some advantage to the hider, but I think that is natural anyways. At sufficient distances it is possible to hide even without any cover. Someone has to actually concentrate to notice something that is not moving once you get beyond their area of focus.
I think you want to give a huge advantage to the hider because you have already given an enormous advantage to the spotter... that owl familiar just happens to be flying right above where the PCs are. Who says the familiar ever has to run accross their trail? He has to be flying somewhere near them first. If the PCs are moving through an untrailed forest, the owl has to cover a huge amount of ground, and will likely never have an opportunity to see the same section of ground twice. 60' in the air doesn't give you much ground to look at, especially if that is already above the canopy. Might as well put the owl 100' in the air, make the spot check more difficult, and allow him to see more ground with one spot check. If you're going to ignore the other 300 spot checks the owl made and didn't see the PCs (because they weren't there) then of course the one check the owl makes when the PCs are around is going to seem incridibly easy.
And why isn't the enemy wizard Scrying anyway? Wouldn't that be a wizard's first inclination to find his enemies? Once he knew, he could send his familiar to keep tabs on them. Either way, the PCs arn't going to stay Hid, especially if they arn't trying to.
And why isn't the enemy wizard Scrying anyway? Wouldn't that be a wizard's first inclination to find his enemies? Once he knew, he could send his familiar to keep tabs on them. Either way, the PCs arn't going to stay Hid, especially if they arn't trying to.
RigaMortus
Explorer
The PCs aren't trying to Hide, so there is no Hide DC for them to set. However, distance is a factor, and you could give a circumstance bonus because of the thick brush. Assuming the owl is flying 60' above them, the check for the owl to spot them would be 6 + whatever circumstance bonus you decide to give them. Using the cover/concealment bonus as a circumstance modifier seems fine by me.
I don't think the character's "base" skill checks should come into play, since they aren't actively trying to hide. That would be like having them roll a Diplomacy check or Bluff check every time they want to speak. You only apply those bonuses when they actively want to be diplomatic or deceitful.
I don't think the character's "base" skill checks should come into play, since they aren't actively trying to hide. That would be like having them roll a Diplomacy check or Bluff check every time they want to speak. You only apply those bonuses when they actively want to be diplomatic or deceitful.
