I have wondered that question, and have even asked that question during previous discussions on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I can't find any rules one way or the other that discuss if a player must use one or two hands to wield an implement, only that you must wield it.
Staff as implement (Do I need two hands?)
- Thread starter DGG
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I have wondered that question, and have even asked that question during previous discussions on this subject. As I mentioned earlier, I can't find any rules one way or the other that discuss if a player must use one or two hands to wield an implement, only that you must wield it.
Flipguarder
First Post
Im going to go out on a limb and say that nothing in existence or in any possible parallel dimension is going to convince me that quarterstaffs can be held in one hand while being used as an implement but greatswords cannot be held in one hand while being used as an implement.
keterys
First Post
Existence really starts to get paradoxical when you consider small races, who can't use two-handed weapons at all, and quarterstaffs 
The really helpful thing is to know that staff implements and quarterstaff weapons appear to be separate things (and the same thing, when it's convenient, but hey). Hence the character builder marking staff implements as off-handed and allowing two (like the rest of the implements), while quarterstaff remains two-handed.
It does appear as if they're very much designed to be 1-handed, though. That's the 'walking staff' option - which is clearly a usage not two-handed. Now, why they could be clear on weapons which are 1-handed and which are 2-handed (hence, why greatsword is always 2-handed), but not implements beats me.
The really helpful thing is to know that staff implements and quarterstaff weapons appear to be separate things (and the same thing, when it's convenient, but hey). Hence the character builder marking staff implements as off-handed and allowing two (like the rest of the implements), while quarterstaff remains two-handed.
It does appear as if they're very much designed to be 1-handed, though. That's the 'walking staff' option - which is clearly a usage not two-handed. Now, why they could be clear on weapons which are 1-handed and which are 2-handed (hence, why greatsword is always 2-handed), but not implements beats me.
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Existence really starts to get paradoxical when you consider small races, who can't use two-handed weapons at all, and quarterstaffs
The really helpful thing is to know that staff implements and quarterstaff weapons appear to be separate things (and the same thing, when it's convenient, but hey). Hence the character builder marking staff implements as off-handed and allowing two (like the rest of the implements), while quarterstaff remains two-handed.
It does appear as if they're very much designed to be 1-handed, though. That's the 'walking staff' option - which is clearly a usage not two-handed. Now, why they could be clear on weapons which are 1-handed and which are 2-handed (hence, why greatsword is always 2-handed), but not implements beats me.
I think a big part of the debate is whether there is a separate "staff implement" and "staff weapon" item, and whether a quarterstaff is a weapon. I think there are different opinions among both us and different members of CSR.
Personally, I think that a quarterstaff is a staff, and rule they are 1-handed as an implement, but 2-handed as a weapon. This isn't really friendly to small races though, since they could only use the staff as an implement.
Also, there is the complication of a recent posting show that CSR stated that having the feats of Staff Fighting and Dual Implement Spellcaster allows you to treat the same staff as 2 weapons. I'm actually fine with this also, but it's still not small race friendly.
I really wish they had done EITHER of these 2 things:
- Explicitly state a quarterstaff is still a staff (to avoid those debates).
- State that whether or not it takes 1 or 2 hands to use as an implement.
- Change the Quarterstaff to a versatile weapon (maybe 1D6 versatile), OR add the "small" property, so a small character can still use it 2-handed.
MyISPHatesENWorld
First Post
From the Character Builder known issues list, updated July 7:
"Updated - Weapon staffs are two-handed and implement staffs are one-handed. There is currently no way to use one as the other in terms of number of hands they take."
July 7 is after the release date for the Eberron Player's Guide, making the issues list the latest official and public communication on the subject of which I am aware.
EDIT: Also on July 7, there is this post by Greg Bilsand in the WotC Eberron Player's Guide errata forum on the topic of: Staff isn't a "two handed implement"
"The staff is not a two-handed implement. The intent is that you can attach or embed a staff. You cannot embed a two-handed implement, if such a thing should ever exist. An attached or embedded staff cannot be used as a weapon because it requires two hands to do so, and you cannot attach or embed two-handed weapons."
"Updated - Weapon staffs are two-handed and implement staffs are one-handed. There is currently no way to use one as the other in terms of number of hands they take."
July 7 is after the release date for the Eberron Player's Guide, making the issues list the latest official and public communication on the subject of which I am aware.
EDIT: Also on July 7, there is this post by Greg Bilsand in the WotC Eberron Player's Guide errata forum on the topic of: Staff isn't a "two handed implement"
"The staff is not a two-handed implement. The intent is that you can attach or embed a staff. You cannot embed a two-handed implement, if such a thing should ever exist. An attached or embedded staff cannot be used as a weapon because it requires two hands to do so, and you cannot attach or embed two-handed weapons."
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keterys
First Post
WotC has been pretty consistent on the 1-handing implements thing when I've seen them weighing in on it... they have, however, not been very thorough on just explaining fully how the rules for staffs and quarterstaffs should work. Hopefully sometime.
In the meantime, expect some table variation. And then some
In the meantime, expect some table variation. And then some
Ok, not to throw another monkey wrench into the system, but I have this issue coming up in my current campaign. If a Staff is a one-handed implement only, and a two-handed quaterstaff is weapon only, would this preclude being able to have weapon magic properties on staffs? (i.e. a Frost Staff, or Life Drinker Staff)
And for my second monkey wrench, though this isn't exactly on topic it is related, how does this weapon magic vs. implement magic work with Sorceror Dagger Implements? Are the only Magic implement daggers the few in PHB2?
-GUido
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
I don't see why not. You wouldn't be able to get nearly as much use out of the property using a Frost Staff as an implement, but you'd still get the enhancement bonus.
The sorcerer entry says it uses magic daggers as implements. That does not specifically limit them to the ones in PHB2. Now, a Frost dagger isn't exactly going to help them, either, but they get the enhancement bonus off of it.
Brad
keterys
First Post
Is there a rule somewhere that says that a, say, swordmage doing a swordburst with a frost sword can't change the damage to Frost? Or trigger the daily power? Don't have access to my AV or PH2, maybe there?
I've seen several people use lightning swords and frost weapons and such on implement powers, so I'd be curious if they're doing it wrong.
If not, a dragonborn sorcerer with that feat that gives +tier to attack and damage with their energy would get more out of a frost dagger (or staff) than any character but a rogue _maybe_.
I've seen several people use lightning swords and frost weapons and such on implement powers, so I'd be curious if they're doing it wrong.
If not, a dragonborn sorcerer with that feat that gives +tier to attack and damage with their energy would get more out of a frost dagger (or staff) than any character but a rogue _maybe_.
VinAlanson
First Post
So everyone is saying that an implement is a weapon??? I would have thought that an implement is not a weapon and therefore is not eligable to any of the feats or magic that is applied to weapons.
Shoot me down if I'm wrong I'd love to be able to apply weapon enhancements to my wizards staff but in my mind an implement is a conduit for the magic to flow through and not a instrument you hit with; unless you specifically choose to physically hit someone with it, in which case it becomes a weapon.
But to use a staff as an implement precludes using weapon enhancements.
Shoot me down if I'm wrong I'd love to be able to apply weapon enhancements to my wizards staff but in my mind an implement is a conduit for the magic to flow through and not a instrument you hit with; unless you specifically choose to physically hit someone with it, in which case it becomes a weapon.
But to use a staff as an implement precludes using weapon enhancements.
