Staff as implement (Do I need two hands?)

Im going to go out on a limb and say that nothing in existence or in any possible parallel dimension is going to convince me that quarterstaffs can be held in one hand while being used as an implement but greatswords cannot be held in one hand while being used as an implement.

I know this has already been answered, but seriously - Pick up a broomstick with one hand, and point it at someone. Easy.
Pick up a greatsword by the handle, with one hand, and try to point it at someone. Not easy.
Bare in mind that the difference in weight/mass isn't the only issue. You can pick up a staff from any point to get a good grip/balance. You cannot safely pick up and wield a greatsword by the blade.
Consequently I see no issue with ruling that a greatsword-implement must use two hands while a staff-implement can be used with one hand. Where no ruling is made, (the DM's) common sense applies.
 

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I know this has already been answered, but seriously - Pick up a broomstick with one hand, and point it at someone. Easy.
Pick up a greatsword by the handle, with one hand, and try to point it at someone. Not easy.
Bare in mind that the difference in weight/mass isn't the only issue. You can pick up a staff from any point to get a good grip/balance. You cannot safely pick up and wield a greatsword by the blade.
Consequently I see no issue with ruling that a greatsword-implement must use two hands while a staff-implement can be used with one hand. Where no ruling is made, (the DM's) common sense applies.

Who declared himself God of logic and decided that you had to point an implement at someone to use it effectively.

Seriously - pick up a walking stick, hold it vertical in one hand, now tilt it towards anything. Easy
Pick up a greatsword hold it blade down vertical in one hand, now tilt it towards anything. Pretty much as easy.
 

an implement can be like witch stones that you clutch and mutter incantations over... not something you points at a target... its being used as a focus for your mind... your eyes are still targeting the attack not necessarily any physicality of your implement... I rule for my game that an implement needs touched ... and that is about it.
 

Well, except for holy symbols, implements actually need to be held in your hand - although you probably didn't intend as much in your definition of "touch", one can "touch" something while holding something in your hand.

That said, I myself would rule that "touching" an implement is not enough - one has to hold it. The difference (in my mind), is that to touch it you could have it hanging around your neck and simply reach to it as a free action. To hold it, one would need to "draw" it in the same way as a weapon. The crunch issue behind the difference in philosophies is basically how easy it is to switch implements/weapons - so, either a free or a minor action, plus whatever actions are required to put away what the character was previously holding.

Now, holding it is not necessarily pointing it - so, one may not need to hold a greatsword with two hands to use it as implement. That said, the only characters I can see spending the feat to get a two handed weapon as an implement are those who intend to use it as a weapon (so, with two hands) - really, there is no game benefit (and indeed a disadvantage, as you need to spend a feat) to taking such a weapon as an implement unless one also intends to use it as a weapon. As such, I see the one handed greatsword implement argument as pretty much a purely intellectual one.

Now, from my own view on the cinematics of things, when using a weapon as an implement, I imagine the "power" coming off of it either from the tip (so, pointing) or from the blade - both, from my own "rule of cool", requiring a two handed grip for a two handed weapon (with weapons that you can hold in the middle, like spears and double weapons, being a posible exception). That said, when the drama of the scene calls for it, I can imagine a hero, through great effort, pointing the weapons at a foe and chanelling their power through it - movies (from Sarah Connor with her Spaz shotgun in T2 to the "childhood friend" in the chinese martial arts film The Empress and her Warriors with a two handed sword and a longsword when he is really pissed) are repleat with examples of an injured/angry hero with a two handed weapon continuing on the fight wielding it in one hand.

So, my own gut check is that most two handed weapons need 2 hands to use as implements, but that in moments of high tension I would allow its use with one hand. That said, as the only characters I can see using such an implement would do so because they also intend to use it as a weapon, I really only see such happening if they need to draw a potion or a dagger or something.
 
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Well, except for holy symbols, implements actually need to be held in your hand - although you probably didn't intend as much in your definition of "touch", one can "touch" something while holding something in your hand.

That said, I myself would rule that "touching" an implement is not enough - one has to hold it.
I also think holy symbols need to be "prominently presented" if they are hidden on your person they might need the same minor action to change that...

Mostly I agree and it's also somewhat of a visualization exercise and for me that means I tend to rule a player can have a lot of sway.. so pointing the big cumbersome thing effectively like it was a wand maybe maybe not. I see weapon stabbed in ground hand on pommel casting spells as just as viable and visually "cool" ... and it probably will require the same drawing action to get the weapon out if you have it sequestered.

Even daggers might be used symbolically in a non violent magic by plunging it into a bowl... not aiming it at your "target".
 

My suspicion is that mechanics-wise a greatsword implement would be usable one-handed as an implement. I'm not sure I agree with the Good Doctor that its irrelevant in practice. There are PLENTY of cases where a character might wish to pull out a second implement and use it along with the primary one. I'm not sure such builds are likely to be wanting to use a 2-handed weaplement, but it certainly isn't outside the bounds of possibility. For instance a hybrid or MC of fighter and wizard or more likely warlock might potentially do it.

In any case, I agree it isn't a really majorly important rules question. Just seems odd I haven't seen anyone ask about it on the WotC boards. Probably HAS been discussed though.
 

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