D&D 5E Stalker0's Minimalist Monk (aka the "minimal change" version)

[Stalker0]

What if the level 11 boost is instead adding proficiency to damage with unarmed strikes and attacks with monk weapons, and they get a third FoB attack at level 15 or 17?

So curious what the concern is here. Do you think giving them the third FoB attack at 11 is too strong....or do you think they need even more scaling at higher levels?

 

[Yaarel]

So a number you wanted even Ki for the monk. Makes sense. The question is, prof mod or wis mod? Again, I don't want to pigeonhole the Monk into having to go dex + wis, but it would be nice to give them some mechanical benefit there. I'm leaning Prof mod at the moment, as that's just a nice clean scaling with guaranteed results...but curious what others think here.

Yeah, I prefer prof for the bonus, rather than Wis.

Wis makes sense (sensory attention is a spiritual meditation technique) (willpower also makes sense), but prof allows more room for a player to make the character ones own.

 

[The Annihilargh]

If we establish an increase in Unarmed Strikes at 11th level, what would we do about the Drunken Master's Intoxicated Frenzy?
Also, what if—for the Way of the Four Elements Monk—we made the disciplines that uses Ki to cast spells like Burning Hands cost one less Ki point?

 

[Weiley31]

All good stuff.

An additional difficulty I would like to see resolve, is the Monk has precious little design space for different kinds of subclasses. The Monk is hide-bound into an extremely specific Shaolin flavor for what a Monk is. One Monk subclass is blond, and an other Monk subclass is brunette, but any version of Monk is pretty much exactly the same.

I would like to relocate much of the Monk class into the Open Hand subclass only. Thus, this would free up much more design space in the Monk class to allow significantly different kinds of Monk subclasses.

• Elemental subclass can have more design space for much more powerful elemental effects.
• A nonmagical Athlete can be a mixed-martial arts champion with Olympic gymnastic stunts.
• A Githzeri Monk subclass can do its own psionic flavor thing.
• An Elf Monk subclass can feel more Elfish.

And so on.

And the Battle Nun can Shoryuken the demon!

 

[Ancalagon]

I wouldn't add an extra attack at level 11, it just takes more time to roll all those attacks (and it's another chance to stun). Perhaps a bigger jump in damage dice? Or add wisdom bonus to damage?

Also, I'm not sure about the unarmored defense being separated from wisdom to make the monk less wisdom dependent - stunning strike is still tied to wisdom.

 

[squibbles]

Patient Defense: Now a reaction (when forced to make a dexterity saving throw or when attacked) instead of a bonus action.
[...]
Patient Defense: I find one of the biggest issues with the monk is they have to constantly trade offense for defense or vice versa. Further, its easy to spend points on defense that is ultimately wasted if the opponent doesn't attack you. This simple change fixes all of that, you can now combine patient defense and flurry of blows if you want to blow the KI, and you now only use the defense if you actually need it. Honestly this is probably the biggest change to the entire class, it really opens up a lot of flexibility for the monk in play.

I like this direction--patient defense always seemed to me to be circumstantial enough that it's a mostly vestigial feature.

One thought though: patient defense with your changes is partly redundant with deflect missiles, which is a bit kludgey.

I know your stated intent is to change as little as possible, but wouldn't it be cleaner to have both abilities work from the same mechanic, i.e. patient defense as 1d10+Dex+monk level damage reduction or deflect missiles as a type of dodge?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So curious what the concern is here. Do you think giving them the third FoB attack at 11 is too strong....or do you think they need even more scaling at higher levels?

I think more damage per attack is more elegant than an additional attack, and that they need something that actually pops at later levels.

And prof is what, +4 at that level? Most rounds the Monk is probably hitting 2-3 times, so prof would add 8-12 damage per round on most rounds, accounting for only hitting most of the time. One extra FoB attack would add 8.5 average damage per round on rounds when you use FoB.

So +prof on all attacks is much stronger in damage, but doesn’t give an extra stun opportunity. I think that is probably a good thing.

 

[Stalker0]

Also, I'm not sure about the unarmored defense being separated from wisdom to make the monk less wisdom dependent - stunning strike is still tied to wisdom.

Exactly, which means that the Monk has a solid reason to go wisdom....or can ignore it. If the monk doesn't want to focus on Stunning Strike, and would rather spend KI for other places (such as subclass abilities perhaps) and ignore wisdom....that is now an option. Or....they can continue to pump wis for the best stuns. Both are viable, which is exactly the flexibility I am shooting for.

So +prof on all attacks is much stronger in damage, but doesn’t give an extra stun opportunity. I think that is probably a good thing.

My main issue with that is it starts to push against the Barbarian's motiff. The barbarian gets a straight +3 to damage when he rages....it seems odd that the monk would just get a better damage bonus than the barb all the time. With an extra attack, we have the differentiator of having to use a resource to get those attacks, and lots of attacks is already established in the monk's core profile.

A more subtle option would be increasing the Martial Arts die to a d10 at 11th, and maybe 2d6 at 17th. This gives just a smidge more damage, but it also helps other abilities like the quickened healing and some subclass abilities, so its less straight damage and a more well rounded bonus.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Exactly, which means that the Monk has a solid reason to go wisdom....or can ignore it. If the monk doesn't want to focus on Stunning Strike, and would rather spend KI for other places (such as subclass abilities perhaps) and ignore wisdom....that is now an option. Or....they can continue to pump wis for the best stuns. Both are viable, which is exactly the flexibility I am shooting for.

My main issue with that is it starts to push against the Barbarian's motiff. The barbarian gets a straight +3 to damage when he rages....it seems odd that the monk would just get a better damage bonus than the barb all the time. With an extra attack, we have the differentiator of having to use a resource to get those attacks, and lots of attacks is already established in the monk's core profile.

A more subtle option would be increasing the Martial Arts die to a d10 at 11th, and maybe 2d6 at 17th. This gives just a smidge more damage, but it also helps other abilities like the quickened healing and some subclass abilities, so its less straight damage and a more well rounded bonus.

Yeah I’m not too worried about niche protection, especially at level 11+, but I also wouldn’t mind making the Barbarians damage buff be proficiency bonus as well.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I might crunch numbers this weekend on some dice tricks like rerolling 1-2 on d8 and d10.