Standard Characters and Power Levels in The D&D Campaign

[RangerWickett]

I got rid of all the NPC classes. I don't see the need to have a Warrior class when you can just have a lower-level Fighter. Really, why do we need 20th level warriors when a 17th to 19th level Fighter is just about the same thing?

Since I give everyone extra Wound Points based on their Constitution, I can get away with people being 0th-level commoners, with no save bonus, base attack bonus, or skill points (sure, logically they have some, but who cares? they're commoners). A town guard might just be a 0th-level commoner, or if he's really good he might be a 1st level Fighter.

Someone who doesn't go out adventuring never gets beyond 5th level, unless they live in a town that gets raided like hell.

 

[GrimJesta]

LOL, as someone with a degree in Antiquated History, I always get a kick out of people thinking Rome's armies were made up up supermen. They could fight as a whole very well, yes, but individually they would get smacked apart by a goth or hun (some exceptions apply, as in all instances). Rome's military might was based upon discipline, not prowess.

-=grim=-

 

[mmadsen]

Feats: Skill Focus: Wilderness Lore +3*Endurance*Combat Reflexes*Dodge*Mobility*Combat Rotation*Side By Side*Team Flanking*Power Attack*Cleave*Point-Blank Shot*Far Shot*Rapid Shot*Shield Expert*Shield Charge*Improved Shield Bash

Some of those Feats don't seem necessary at all for a legionnaire, namely:

Skill Focus: Wilderness Lore -- they forage a bit, and they don't even do that much with their magical supplies
Combat Reflexes -- unnecessary
Dodge -- for heavy infantry?
Mobility -- again, for heavy infantry?
Power Attack, Cleave -- fit barbarian hordes better
Point-Blank Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot -- for every legionnaire? not just a special archery corps?

I don't have all the supplements, so I'm not sure about Combat Rotation, Side By Side, and Team Flanking, but they sound appropriate, if not necessary. Same with Shield Expert, Shield Charge, and Improved Shield Bash.

Great Teamwork and Improved Aid (from Oriental Adventures) certainly seem appropriate for legionnaires.

Anyway, here's my take on SHARK's Vallorean Legionnaires:

Vallorean Legionnaire
Male Vallorean
Medium-size Humanoid
Fighter 4
HD: 4d10+4 (26 hit points.)
Initiative: +0 (+0 Dex)
Speed: 30 ft (20 ft. in armor)
AC: 17 (+5 Breastplate, +2 Shield)
Attacks: +5 Shortsword or +4 Javelin
Damage: Shortsword 1d6+1, Javelin 1d6
Alignment: Usually Lawful
Saving Throws: Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats: Endurance, Combat Rotation, Side By Side, Team Flanking, Shield Expert, Shield Charge

Skills: Climb(STR)-3, Craft(INT): Stonemason+2/Carpentry+2, Handle Animal(CHA)+4, Jump(STR)-3, Ride(DEX)+0, Swim(STR)-5, Wilderness Lore (WIS)+4, Knowledge(INT): War+2
(-4 Armor Check Penalty, -6 to Swim)

Equipment

Javelin (Pilum)
Shortsword (Gladius)
Breastplate (Lorica)

(Contained within the Backpack)
Thick, black woolen cloak
Silver double-headed eagle brooch
Leather gloves
Black Leather Belt; silver studded, silver buckle.
Trousers (4)
Shirts (6)
Tunics (6)
Socks/shorts (8)
Small Silver Mirror
Carpentry Tools
Whetstone
Spade
Daggers (2)

 

[Mordax_sighs]

SHARK's stats are very out of line for any earthly "veteran soldier," I think. Magical items that go beyond the practical, stupendous training...Never happen. Earth's guys should start at 1st level.

But only in an earthly setting.

Something people lose sight of in a fantasy game is, magic changes everything. In a society where D&D magic is readily available to the common man, nothing would work the way we think it should:

1) There wouldn't have to be a "working class."
Divine magic could create food and water out of thin air, and create vegetation out of dust. No farmers.

Arcane magic could forge objects out of practically nothing: Fabricate spells, and the like. Not much call for miners or mundane artisans.

2) There wouldn't be much call for people in the service industry.
Charmed creatures, summoned/gated creatures, spell effects (unseen servant, etc.), and constructs could do the grunt work.

Between all of that, you could muster most of the population as soldiers - anybody who wasn't necessary to keep the magic going.

3) Basic training would be amazing.
Soldiers could get practical experience fighting virtually any kind of creature via summoning, or animation, or illusions.

Soldiers could train under any conditions, including aerial mounted combat, underwater, or even extraplanar combat, all with drill instructors.

Soldiers could take any level of injury during training, including death.


When you sit there, and really *think* about that...SHARK's stuff doesn't seem so odd.

(I know I've mentioned this to him before.)

 

[BronzeDragon]

I really want to know something.

Is there any LIVING opposition to the Vallorean Empire?

With soldiers like that, I figure all opposition must have been crushed a long time ago, unless the rest of the world is similarly on steroids...

 

[Corinth]

If I recall correctly, this is exactly the case for those who oppose the Vallorean Empire.

 

[WSmith]

I got rid of all the NPC classes. I don't see the need to have a Warrior class when you can just have a lower-level Fighter. Really, why do we need 20th level warriors when a 17th to 19th level Fighter is just about the same thing?

Ryan, I feel the same way you do. In an attempt to head in a "rules lite" direction, I just come up with the concept, give the ability scores, ranks and skills I think would be appropriate and go from there. No BAB, no bonuses to saves, feats are very limited( one or two depending on the concept), d6 HP, and off I go. I really don't need anymore stat info than that, but their characteristics, motives, and personalities are given in better detail.

 

[abri]

Right, but a Vietnam-era US conscript should be a 1st-level American (Expert?) with minimal training (Weapon Proficiency: M-16) and no will to fight.

What about someone who's been training to fight since birth? Isn't that what a medieval European knight or Japanese samurai is? And he's supposed to be first level?

Wait a minute. Who said that samurai and knight were L1?
I agree that armies are made of L1: a typical feudal army for a country would be 10-20000 infantry, more than half would be L1 commoners (conscripts), some would be fighters (rare as infantry was not trained). And then there would be 600-1000 knights and these are not L1!
Let's have a look at was a knight is: first he is NOT YOUNG, it was almost impossible to be a knight before 23-25. He has spend several years fighting (since he was 16) with an older knight. And yes he has trained since he was 6...
In DnD term he is L3-4.

BUT he is not your typical soldier, he represents 5% of the army.
You just can't have a whole army of high level fighter. Maybe for the simple reason that the high level fighters still need some red-shirts near them.
Your typical L1 character is still a hero (ok a beginning hero): he can defeat several castle guards and soldiers. But he is no knight...

 

[Kichwas]

Right, but a Vietnam-era US conscript should be a 1st-level American (Expert?) with minimal training (Weapon Proficiency: M-16) and no will to fight.

Actually, from what I was told when I went through my military history course in Basic...

A Vietnam soilder just getting off the plane and starting his tour would be a level 1 commoner with NO weapon proficiencies. He'd likely have even less than a 13th century French serf.
This was in fact one of our major failings in Vietnam; we didn't give them gun training because we assumed 'any good ol' boy learns how to shoot a rifle on the farm'. Problem being that American was no longer a rural 'good ol' boy' nation...


Otherwise. If I was fielding an army in a 'typical fantasy setting' I'd expect this:


Knights: level 3-6 fighters.
Infantry: level 1-3 commoners.
Bowmen: level 1-3 warriors.
and some low level mages and clerics.
Paladins only enter the equation if it's a holy war or I'm fielding Joan of Arc style nationalists.

Use the minimum level above for any young soilder who has never been in battle. The other levels are for older people.

Your first battle is all it should take to level. Anyone who surives their first battle should get a level of warrior or their previous class.

So even a fresh faced 16 year old pikeman who has lived through one battle would be a level 1 commoner, level 1 warrior.

After the first battle level progression would be slower.

But if a troop was there through the majority of the battles of his unit throughout an entire war he'd likely muster out 4 to 5 levels higher than her mustered in. However this individual is rare in war. Most people don't survive their first battle. Fewer survive their second. Reinforcements are what keeps an army's numbers workable.


As for joe shmoe's level, I'd say for every (2 * current level * (racial lifespan/human lifespan)) years after their 'starting age' they ought to be one more level up.

Assuming they have not been actively engaged in 'life altering challenges'.

I prefer running and playing in games that start at level 1. But I also prefer the characters in such games be young, or have explainations as to why they are level 1.

I look at level 1 as the guy who just finished secondary school, apprenticeship, or similar.

You meet a 30 year old village woman in my game and she's probably a level 4 or 5 commoner just from life experience (14-adult, 16-2, 20-3, 26-4, 34-5).

People in my group often wonder why I'm playing a 'little 16 year old girl', but they forget that in her society she's already a few years into adulthood and if she hadn't run off to be an adventurer she'd probably already have one babe on the knee, one on the bosom, and a third in the oven (assuming they and she survived - pregnancy is more dangerous than a pack of well trained Kobolds...).

 

[Numion]

I think SHARK has a point about the magic items.

Magic items last forever, and the Vallorean empire is over 2000 years old. That would mean they could have produced incredible amount of magical items during all those years. Of course, some will be lost during that time, but still, they'll have a great deal of items from the previous centuries.

So I don't find the idea of all these magic items strange.