Star Wars: Andor

[embee]

So is R2 sentient or just very clever programming faking it? R2 make be fully sentient due to lack of memory wipe but there won't be to many droids like that I would imagine.

Hence the inherent immorality of essentially lobotomizing a sentient being against its will. That was the central conceit of Threepio's (neutered) sacrifice - that having his memory wiped would erase his humanity.

Q: Would Threepio's sacrifice mean anything if wasn't sentient?

 

[embee]

While it can be interesting to explore these other paradigms of sentience, works which are at least partially intended to be consumed by children during their formative years do not constitute a safe space in which to make those explorations.

I strongly disagree.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hence the inherent immorality of essentially lobotomizing a sentient being against its will. That was the central conceit of Threepio's (neutered) sacrifice - that having his memory wiped would erase his humanity.

Q: Would Threepio's sacrifice mean anything if wasn't sentient?

Is C3-PO actually sentient though?

On Endor it was against his programming to impersonate a deity. Ergo how much free will does he actually have?

Here's the problem treating Star Wars droids as organics. Parody but you'll see the point. Assume Palapatine went in a different direction.

Galactic News Network. It has been a year since Chancellor Palpatine introduced the droids voting rights act granting citizenship rights to droids. We are here to interview V1-TE on their opinion of the Trade federation-Techno Union merger.

V1-TE "Vote Palapatine".

Reporter "That's great V1. VK-47 what's your opinion"?

VK-47 "Palpatine is my favorite meatbag".

"And B1-V2 what's your opinion"?
B1-V2 "We love Palpatine Roger Roger".

GNN: "Breaking news the Senate has just announced a 5% tax raise. The money has earmarked for 1 trillion new V0-TE droids. GNN welcomes our new citizens.

Even in old Legends which dif explore droid sentience there's a species of sentient Droids (not manufactured by Republic/Empire,) experimental models (IG series, Guri) and R2 (debateable) that actually have free well. Those models are similar to Data from Trek cutting ng edge prototypes.

C3-PO argueably is an intelligent walking Google translate machine.

 

[Ryujin]

Is C3-PO actually sentient though?

On Endor it was against his programming to impersonate a deity. Ergo how much free will does he actually have?

Here's the problem treating Star Wars droids as organics. Parody but you'll see the point. Assume Palapatine went in a different direction.

Galactic News Network. It has been a year since Chancellor Palpatine introduced the droids voting rights act granting citizenship rights to droids. We are here to interview V1-TE on their opinion of the Trade federation-Techno Union merger.

V1-TE "Vote Palapatine".

Reporter "That's great V1. VK-47 what's your opinion"?

VK-47 "Palpatine is my favorite meatbag".

"And B1-V2 what's your opinion"?
B1-V2 "We love Palpatine Roger Roger".

GNN: "Breaking news the Senate has just announced a 5% tax raise. The money has earmarked for 1 trillion new V0-TE droids. GNN welcomes our new citizens.

Even in old Legends which dif explore droid sentience there's a species of sentient Droids (not manufactured by Republic/Empire,) experimental models (IG series, Guri) and R2 that actually have free well.

C3-PO argueably is an intelligent walking Google translate.

In response I would ask, "Are you sentient?" How would you prove it to an entity other than yourself? If it walks/rolls/flies, talks/communicates, emotes, appears to be concious of itself, then it's likely best to treat it as if it is sentient.

 

[MarkB]

Is C3-PO actually sentient though?

On Endor it was against his programming to impersonate a deity. Ergo how much free will does he actually have?

It was also against his programming to get into an escape pod at the start of Episode IV. He still did it, though.

And does having constraints upon the actions you're allowed to take really have a bearing on sentience? He's able to consider the possiblity of impersonating a deity. It's just acting upon it that's not allowed.

 

[embee]

On Endor it was against his programming to impersonate a deity. Ergo how much free will does he actually have?

How literally should we interpret that? Do we interpret that in a Three Laws sense that he is actually incapable of doing it? Or is it the droid equivalent of law and/or morality with "programming" being a word choice by the screenwriter to imply a form of droid morality?

If the former, then Threepio lacks free will. Virtue comes from the choice to act in a set manner, not from the mere performance of that act. And if Threepio lacks free will and is just cleverly executing subroutines, then does his "sacrifice" in ROTS contain any virtue? In that case, no. It's a mere performative act that is the product of his programming.

If the latter, then Threepio's protestation in ROTJ is rooted in principle, not literal programming. It's not that he is physically incapable of doing but rather that he has concluded that doing so is wrong and "it's against my programming" is droid-speak for such. From this interpretation, Threepio's ROTS "sacrifice" gets meaning because he is actively choosing to give up his existence.

As to your droid suffrage hypothetical, it presumes that all droids are equally programmed. Is a mouse droid interchangeable with Artoo? Both are droids. One could ask whether a gibbon interchangeable with you? After all, you are both apes.

 

[Zardnaar]

It was also against his programming to get into an escape pod at the start of Episode IV. He still did it, though.

And does having constraints upon the actions you're allowed to take really have a bearing on sentience? He's able to consider the possiblity of impersonating a deity. It's just acting upon it that's not allowed.

Is it against his programming to get into the pod or it just doesn't conflict with his core programming?

R2 is sentient imho. C3-PO maybe. It's borderline me for some of the smarter droids like C3-PO. R2 doesn't seem to be restrained by programming anymore, C3-PO still is.

I don't have definitive answer, Disney hasn't addressed it afaik Legends did have sentient Droids.

 

[Zardnaar]

It was also against his programming to get into an escape pod at the start of Episode IV. He still did it, though.

And does having constraints upon the actions you're allowed to take really have a bearing on sentience? He's able to consider the possiblity of impersonating a deity. It's just acting upon it that's not allowed.

He doesn't have true free will. He's essentially very clever programming.

R2, Skynet, Data have genuine free will imho. It's one of the oldest tropes in sci fi if done well I think it's still isn't played out.

 

[MarkB]

Is it against his programming to get into the pod or it just doesn't conflict with his core programming?

R2 is sentient imho. C3-PO maybe. It's borderline me for some of the smarter droids like C3-PO. R2 doesn't seem to be restrained by programming anymore, C3-PO still is.

I don't have definitive answer, Disney hasn't addressed it afaik Legends did have sentient Droids.

I'll put it this way: I don't think George Lucas, or any of the subsequent movie writers, draw any distinction between Artoo's sentience and Threepio's. For us to do so is to impose a construct upon that setting that is not intrinsic to it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'll put it this way: I don't think George Lucas, or any of the subsequent movie writers, draw any distinction between Artoo's sentience and Threepio's. For us to do so is to impose a construct upon that setting that is not intrinsic to it.

No it's not a core part of the story although it could be done.

But just with what we see onscreen R2 has more agency than C3.

If you think about it hard enough though if droids are sentient SW has a problem.