D&D 4E Star Wars Saga Edition as preview of 4e?

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

I'm kinda liking the three tiered skill proficiency change, as it certainly will make characters/NPCs easier and much quicker to build with fewer mistakes, but I think the elimination of synergy bonuses and the condensation of skills to the extent that they did goes a bit too far.

Sure, Perception/Notice (without Sense Motive, thank you very much), Stealth/Sneak, Craft covering Repairing, Athletics covering Swim, Climb, and Jump (which doesn't appear to be in Saga Edition, given that Climb is listed as a separate skill in the preview character's stat block), and Open Lock being part of Disable Device are fine and dandy, but all forms of Persuasion in one skill? Doesn't that seem to conflict with their mantra of no excess baggage that they were talking about with the Classes/Talent trees? Is the condensing of skills really necessary when all characters already get some degree of competency with all skills?

I don't mind so much the elimination of other skill bonuses, but something like synergy bonuses seems like it could have stayed without too much trouble. They really were not that complicated in the first place, more akin to Circumstance bonuses that were set by the rules rather than DM fiat than most other flat skill bonuses, really. Of course, the elimination of synergy bonuses pretty much ties hand and hand with how they condensed the skills, since many skills that had synergy may very well be in the same skill now in the first place. If there were more skills, it could easily be that you were trained in (or had skill focus for, or both) a skill you got the synergy bonuses for other skills it provided... *shrugs* I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to bring that back, in any case.

The skill bonus system I could easily see being brought to 4E, but the skill condensation/elimination of synergy bonuses? Not so much. And, of course, with the elimination of Skill Points/Ranks, I'm going to have to figure out a way to integrate Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel without creating a bunch of needless feats/talents/abilities... maybe in place of gaining Trained status in a skill... hmm...

As for the Saves being static target numbers rather than bonuses... consistency is one thing (and a good one at that!), but I think that a rule akin to "players roll all the dice" would have fit the Star Wars feel and play better. I have to agree that players like to have some affect on the bad things that happen to their characters. I guess I'll just have to wait and see about these promised "save your ass" abilities.

 

[Felon]

If your background says you live in desert and have never seen water in your life, then give your character a -5 to swim checks or something. Its very easy to adjust this model to encompass a character's background.

No no no we musn't do that...Applying a -5 penalty requires math which, much like adding bonuses, is bad and boring by your own assertion.

Let's see, we're replacing bonuses with rerolls, so we gotta replace penalties with...derolls?

 

[Felon]

The skill bonus system I could easily see being brought to 4E, but the skill condensation/elimination of synergy bonuses? Not so much. And, of course, with the elimination of Skill Points/Ranks, I'm going to have to figure out a way to integrate Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel without creating a bunch of needless feats/talents/abilities... maybe in place of gaining Trained status in a skill... hmm...

Well, now you could just require the guy to be trained and have achieved a certain level. Require Skill Focus if you think a trick is particularly potent.

 

[Vicar In A Tutu]

I think the changes rock and I hope they will be introduced in D&D 4E. It would make my job as a DM much, much easier.

 

[stonehill_troll]

Regardless, I want a simpler D&D, not more crap to add on. If you don't, then thats fine. Stick with 3.5. I just know that it is the same problem over and over. We make it to just about 9th - 10th level, then the game sucks, and stops. Either the players are too overpowering, or are overpowered. Heck, no one in our group ever wants to DM, cause it sucks to remember every creatures 42 feats, abilities, etc.

Hmm, grant you we have a only a seen a small bit of the overall rules, but making the mechanics simpler does not imply that they will any less powerful. Though I totally agree with you, beyond 10th it is not fun at all to run a game, as the PCs are just too powerful/overpowered; even as a player it gets old pretty quick after 10th level.

Anyway thus far, I am not liking these new rules.

 

[D.Shaffer]

I think you guys are really kidding yourselves if you don't think that substituting rerolls for numerical bonuses will cloy at a very rapid pace.

OK, let's say we take one instance where you'd get a bonus to a given skill (let's say from a racial trait) and the new version instead gives you a reroll.

Now let's take another instance where you'd get a bonus to that same skill (this time it's a class feature). Does it offer yet another reroll?

While I'm not yet convinced we have achieved the new holy grail in skill mechanics here, I dont think this is as much of a problem. Just have them roll all the dice at once rather then one at a time. So long as you dont have any house ruled 'The higher the result, the better the result' additions, so long as you get a single success, that's all that matters.

 

[WayneLigon]

Pretty darn good idea.

The problem of 'I'm 10th level and I don't know how to swim, ride, climb a rope, reliably jump a short chasm, or mant other utility skills of adventuring that are not used a lot but really, really slow down the game when we have to use them and makes my character look like an idiot' is solved.

Knowing the level means you automatically know the skill bonus for many skills.

Getting rid of the plethora of '+2 bonus to two related skills' feats is a great idea. (Especially when this easily could have been one feat, like it is in Arcana Unearthed. Sorry, guys, all those feats are just padding the word count right there.)

This is very much like True20/Blue Rose does things and I think you could drop the idea wholesale into D&D without much problem. At the very least in the new edition, it should be presented as an optional rule in the main rules book.

 

[Wormwood]

If this is 4th edition...I'm sold. All hail the new overlords.

That pretty much sums me up right there.

All steps in the right direction.

 

[Hjorimir]

I just wish they would have dumped the ability scores and gone straight to the modifiers, which is what is really important anyway. Having a number just so it can represent a number is downright silly; take that cow out and shoot it!

But, like many others, I'm gleefully awaiting my copy of the new book and hope that D&D adopts many of these changes.

 

[Professor Phobos]

If this is a preview for 4e, sign me up!