D&D 4E Star Wars Saga Edition as preview of 4e?

[Gentlegamer]

I despise the new skill system! Please kill it and burn it!

So Star Wars can't even use it? Or do you mean you'd rather not have that system in D&D?

 

[Greg K]

So Star Wars can't even use it? Or do you mean you'd rather not have that system in D&D?

I don't like it for either. I dislike the idea of skill bonues automatically increasing with level which is one reason that I stopped playing 1e D&D and Palladium games.

 

[GSHamster]

That is not really addressing my issue though. I am saying that three levels of skill difference are not enough. The untrained levl isn't the problem, I actually like the fact that people untrained in a skill can attempt things with the skill, for instance untrained you can most likely operate a speeder since everyone in the universe isn't a pilot and yet they some how manage to get to work.

But there's more than three levels of skill difference. People can have character levels, and higher level implies higher skill. So a level 10 trained pilot is better than a level 5 trained pilot.

It's directly analagous to combat proficiency in a way. Higher level characters are better than lower level characters. However, training and skill focus can make up for a 10 or 20 level differential, which is very generous, in my opinion.

 

[Droogie]

Wow! They read my mind. I've always wanted to combine Listen, Spot, Search, and Sense Motive, but my friends thought me mad. MAD, I TELL YOU.

And three tiers of expertise is enough for me, at least for the fast-paced universe of Star Wars.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I don't like it for either. I dislike the idea of skill bonues automatically increasing with level which is one reason that I stopped playing 1e D&D and Palladium games.

I like it. If I wanted a skill system that didn't automatically increase by level, I'd play a skill-based system like GURPS.

 

[Greg K]

I like it. If I wanted a skill system that didn't automatically increase by level, I'd play a skill-based system like GURPS.

GURPS and Hero System have their own problems as to why I don't play them. However, staying on topic, I believe that it should be my choice as a player as to if a character's skill improves and the designers have no business building in any automatic improvement. Therefore, I do not consider this change to be an improvement, but rather I consider it a giant step backwards in game design .

 

[Felon]

I love these new ideas, they definately jive with my idea of how the skill system should look. The idea of talents letting you reroll checks and taking 10 or 20 is a good way to differentiate, I like how they are going with it. Adding numbers is boring, but rerolling is fun, so that will make skills more interactive.

I didn't say they'd give bonuses in the sense of additions to the die roll. They will give abilities (skill stunts, rerolls, etc.).

I think you guys are really kidding yourselves if you don't think that substituting rerolls for numerical bonuses will cloy at a very rapid pace.

OK, let's say we take one instance where you'd get a bonus to a given skill (let's say from a racial trait) and the new version instead gives you a reroll.

Now let's take another instance where you'd get a bonus to that same skill (this time it's a class feature). Does it offer yet another reroll?

How many mulligans can you take before it sucks some of the thrill out of rolling a die? I don't know about you guys, but as a kid I didn't like "takebacks" in our little childhood games.

So, the likely response I'll get here is that there will be other mechanics besides rerolls. Like what? Outside of one ability score, one skill, one feat, and one-half class level, numerical bonuses have beent tossed out wholecloth. We can give you a reroll, we can let you take 10. What else?

 

[Felon]

Wow! They read my mind. I've always wanted to combine Listen, Spot, Search, and Sense Motive, but my friends thought me mad. MAD, I TELL YOU.

That's actually pretty old had. Iron Heroes, Arcan Evolved, & True20 all compressed skills in a similar manner.

And that's probably not an exhaustive list.

Can't say I think Sense Motive belongs in there with the rest. I can easily envision a scout being great at hearing squirrels fart at 100 paces, but knowing squat about reading body language and facial expressions.

 

[hong]

That's actually pretty old had. Iron Heroes, Arcan Evolved, & True20 all compressed skills in a similar manner.

And that's probably not an exhaustive list.

Can't say I think Sense Motive belongs in there with the rest. I can easily envision a scout being great at hearing squirrels fart at 100 paces, but knowing squat about reading body language and facial expressions.

"You see the expression on that man's face? It's saying that he wants to fart like a squirrel at 100 paces."

 

[FireLance]

GURPS and Hero System have their own problems as to why I don't play them. However, staying on topic, I believe that it should be my choice as a player as to if a character's skill improves and the designers have no business building in any automatic improvement. Therefore, I do not consider this change to be an improvement, but rather I consider it a giant step backwards in game design .

I'm curious: do you have problems with automatic improvements in base attack bonuses and base saving throws? If not, what makes skills so special? While I can see advantages in having more granularity with respect to skills (more differences in levels of skill between characters of the same level) and more specificity (distinguishing Spot from Sense Motive instead of rolling both into Perception), automatic improvement for skills is something that I can accept as a feature of a class-based system.