Star Wars Saga Edition?

[gribble]

OK, let's explore that. Is a jedi having an infallable, infinitely-reusable magic 8-ball for indicating the fortuitousness of his actions a desirable or undesirable thing for playing Star Wars?

See my post immediately above this post of yours. Even by the RAW, it's in no way infallable. Besides which, determining "whether a particular action will yield favorable or unfavorable results to you in the immediate future" isn't exactly game breaking. I'd say 90% of the time it's going to return inconclusive results anyway - under what circumstances do you see this being unbalancing?

 

[Felon]

Wrong...people bought it to play a fun, compelling Star Wars game. Are you really trying to argue that someone who wasn't interested in playing a Star Wars game would pick up the Star Wars RPG...?

I'm arguing that someone who wasn't interested in playing Star Wars would still play Star Wars if it was a fun, compelling game. I argue this because I know it's true: throughout the various editions I've played, there have certainly been players who didn't actually give a crap about Star Wars (excuse me, Star Wars). They played it for reasons that had nothing to do with the setting (which, for folks going strictly by the movies they've watched, is something so nebulous that it can hardly be called a setting at all). I don't know why you're so incredulous about that.

 

[gribble]

I'm arguing that someone who wasn't interested in playing Star Wars would still play Star Wars if it was a fun, compelling game.
...
I don't know why you're so incredulous about that.

I don't disagree, but I'd wager good money that such people are probably going to be in the minority. Your agrument seems to be that the Star Wars RPG should be the generic sci-fi RPG, because most people don't care whether the game is Star Wars or not - they just want a good game.
I'd say that the vast majority of people playing Saga (let alone actually buying the book, which is what you're arguing) are interested in a good Star Wars game not just a good generic sci-fi game. You seem to be disputing that, and that's what I'm incredulous about.

 

[Felon]

How would you use it in this situation:

Situation: You are going to talk to Tooba Don-Oota, the Twi'lek Jedi Loremaster. He has some secrets to tell your young Jedi. But on your trail is the evil Sith Warrior Rossan, and in 5 minutes he's going to find you and attack.

What action do you Sense your Feelings about? What would it tell you on a successful roll?

What if you are the DM? What information would you reveal on a successful check?

I'd need something more granular than a situation, since it's not a situation that I'm searching my feelings about, but rather actions. But in general, I'd use this ability to know if there was about to be a gear shift.

So, let's say my action is leaving my lightsaber in the sock drawer. I search my feelings and know that will be unfavorable. If I'm close to the loremaster, I'll check for leaving it in my speeder's glove compartment instead. Either way, I now have a pretty good sense that some stuff is about to go down. That's a bit of an assumption on my part; maybe the loremaster heard I have a really nice lightsaber and will storm off in a huff because I didn't bring it. Or I might get stuck in the elevator on the way up to meet him and need to cut my way out. Or someone might want to raid my sock drawer. But most likely I'm going to need to chop somebody up. When the killer shows up--dramatically jumps through the skylight or what have you--it won't be any kind of surprise. Not for me, not for the Sith.

After dealing with the Sith, assuming I'm still alive, I repeat the same formula formula. Sock drawer check is clean. Glove compartment check, clean. Basically, I'll know whether or not it's safe to stand near a skylight.

I gotta say that as a DM, I want people not so sure about skylights.

 

[Felon]

I don't disagree, but I'd wager good money that such people are probably going to be in the minority. Your agrument seems to be that the Star Wars RPG should be the generic sci-fi RPG, because most people don't care whether the game is Star Wars or not - they just want a good game.
I'd say that the vast majority of people playing Saga (let alone actually buying the book, which is what you're arguing) are interested in a good Star Wars game not just a good generic sci-fi game. You seem to be disputing that, and that's what I'm incredulous about.

Well, first off, I'm not arguing about people buying the book but rather playing the game.

Secondly, what I am arguing is that aside from the force, it is pretty a generic sci-fi setting. Furthermore, most folks have no idea what specifically defines a Star Wars game and separates it from a generic sci-fi game, except insofar as you drop a Lucas-trademarked person, place, or thing into the game every now and then. Nobody here in this thread seems to be able to come up with anything more than that. Starship battles? Generic. Blaster shooutouts? Generic. Being attacked by alien monsters? Generic. Star Wars set the modern standard for space-opera after all, so I don't get how you think it's such a broad departure from what can be called generic.

 

[LostSoul]

After dealing with the Sith, assuming I'm still alive, I repeat the same formula formula. Sock drawer check is clean. Glove compartment check, clean. Basically, I'll know whether or not it's safe to stand near a skylight.

That looks cool. I don't see a problem with it, playing like that in the game.

If you don't want to play like that, make a house rule: DC is the Will Defense of the trouble.

 

[Felon]

That looks cool. I don't see a problem with it, playing like that in the game.

True, if pacing and surprises aren't important in your campaign, then it's not a problem having danger or safety telegraphed to the players cosntantly.

Then again, IMO a game without sudden, dramatic changes in pace isn't be very Star-Warsy.

 

[gribble]

Well, first off, I'm not arguing about people buying the book but rather playing the game.

Oh really?

Wrong...people bought it to play a fun, compelling game.

Hmmm...

Secondly, what I am arguing is that aside from the force, it is pretty a generic sci-fi setting.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about that one. IMO, Star Wars has a very definite feel to it, and it isn't generic sci-fi (i.e.: Star Trek/Traveller/Battlestar Galactica). The Force is a very big part of that - at least as told by the movies/comics and other media - it makes Star Wars more of a space fantasy than what I'd call sci-fi.
Regardless, to me Star Wars has a very definite feel, which is distinct from generic sci-fi - I know this because I'm not a big fan of generic sci-fi, but I am a big fan of Star Wars. And, IMO, the Saga ruleset does a very good job of capturing that feel in a ruleset by proving mechanics that match and encourage that feel.

 

[gribble]

True, if pacing and surprises aren't important in your campaign, then it's not a problem having danger or safety telegraphed to the players cosntantly.

As I demonstrated above, it's not the infallable all-knowing danger sense that you portray at all. I note you still haven't addressed those posts.

And if you can't still surprise players when they have a vague sense of danger (which any experienced player will have most of the time in a RPG anyway - and as you admitted could be attributable to any number of different causes)... well...

 

[Felon]

Oh really?

Hmmm...

That line was pretty obviously rebutting Imaro's remark "Wrong...people bought it as a way to play Star Wars" using his words, his arguement.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about that one. IMO, Star Wars has a very definite feel to it, and it isn't generic sci-fi (i.e.: Star Trek/Traveller/Battlestar Galactica). The Force is a very big part of that - at least as told by the movies/comics and other media - it makes Star Wars more of a space fantasy than what I'd call sci-fi.
Regardless, to me Star Wars has a very definite feel, which is distinct from generic sci-fi - I know this because I'm not a big fan of generic sci-fi, but I am a big fan of Star Wars. And, IMO, the Saga ruleset does a very good job of capturing that feel in a ruleset by proving mechanics that match and encourage that feel.

I like Saga edition fine. I think it has a healthy direction it can go in, and it's not focusing on force-users to the exclusion of other characters, which is what I am afraid may happen if the upcoming supplements are any indicator.

Other than that, I guess we will just have to disagree. You seem to be employing the jazz defense, basically saying that if I have to ask how Star Wars is different, then you don't feel there's any way to explain it. I don't see how game mechanics capture the feel of a movie, especially since we're discussing stuff that explicitly doesn't capture the feel of the movies (like characters being able to use the force ad nauseum for feats like moving objects and predicting the future, rather than at specific dramatic moments).

As I demonstrated above, it's not the infallable all-knowing danger sense that you portray at all. I note you still haven't addressed those posts.

Gribble, you have a knack for misrepresenting other people's points of view. I did not characterize anything as "all-knowing". It tells the player enough to telegraph a gear shift, and that's pretty much the extent of what I've said.

And if you can't still surprise players when they have a vague sense of danger (which any experienced player will have most of the time in a RPG anyway - and as you admitted could be attributable to any number of different causes)... well...

There is a world of difference between having a constant vague sense of danger and a reliable gauge whether or not something's going down in 10 minutes. In fact, the latter undermines the former. If you can't understand, then, well, I'm going to have to bust an ellipse on you....