Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[trappedslider]

But you'll also hear a fair number of comments comparing the movie to fan fiction that will never stand with the originals. .

I honestly think no SW movie is going to live up to the expectations of the fans that saw the original movies back in the late 70s and 80s. I also think that holds true for some of the younger fans as well (those of us who got SW fever during the 90s)

I also think the best time for this movie to have come out was back in the time around the release of the OT, before those first viewers taste and knowledge and expectations could change.

 

[Cor Azer]

A sympathetic protagonist (in particular) is one the audience is expected to identify with, as opposed to an unsympathetic protagonist with whom they are meant to be uncomfortable and unsure. Withholding details of a protagonist's primary motivation in any scene by definition and by experience runs counter to making the character accessible to the widest possible audience to identify with.



You're right, I'm afraid. Chalk it up to the screenplay using every cheap trick in the book to compensate for the weakness of Rey's arc, or to Ridley's above-average performance, or to the fact that everyone's just glad to see a competent star wars movie, but even the critics I'd normally expect to complain, are instead glossing over nearly all the issues I saw with this movie. Heck, I halfway agree myself--it's great to see a strong female lead and a star wars entry that doesn't make me want to vomit with shame for being a star wars fan.

But you'll also hear a fair number of comments comparing the movie to fan fiction that will never stand with the originals. And fan fiction in addition to being derivative is also notable for being weak on the fundamentals of craft. So I don't feel like it's impossible that others, perhaps many others, felt the same disconnection and disappointment I did, or that a critique of the basics is out of order.

Perhaps not what you intended to say, but that comes off very strongly as a No True Scotsman argument...

 

[dd.stevenson]

Perhaps not what you intended to say, but that comes off very strongly as a No True Scotsman argument...

Sorry, I don't follow. How so?

Edit: Perhaps that was a misquote?

 

[Cor Azer]

Sorry, I don't follow. How so?

Audiences and critics seem to have overwhelmingly agreed Rey is an accessible character. To me, your comments make it sound like they all think she isn't and are just playing along, or were tricked into thinking she's more accessible than you, a "true and honest" critic, believe.

I'm not saying that's what you intended to say. Just that's what it sounds like to me.

And to be fair, while I haven't exactly gone looking, the only comparisons of TFA to fan fiction that I've seen were claims of Rey being a Mary Sue, which have been thoroughly debunked.

 

[dd.stevenson]

I'm not saying that's what you intended to say.

It's not what I intended to say, not what I think, and not what I said.

 

[Cor Azer]

It's not what I intended to say, not what I think, and not what I said.

That's why I asked for clarification

Because when Umbran pointed out audience and critics found Rey plenty accessible, you replied with, in part:

Chalk it up to the screenplay using every cheap trick in the book to compensate for the weakness of Rey's arc.

Which implies you think the audiences and critics were, in part, tricked into finding her more accessible than she "actually" was, rather than consider that many people found her plenty accessible in the first place.

I'm not saying the movie, or even Rey's arc, is beyond reproach, but accessibility isn't a big flaw in Rey's character.

One problem with multi-volume stories is that some things need to remain unrevealed so that there's stuff to explore in later volumes. So writers are left with essentially four options:

1. leave nothing of a character's past to be explored later
2. waste time explaining things that won't be relevant until later (if ever)
3. have random, but important, background elements pop up in later volumes (Star Trek series are full of this)
4. touch on stuff just enough to show there's something there, but leave the details vague

I would like to think it's obvious 1 and 2 are poor choices for character development and pacing, respectively. 3 is typically inevitable in any sort of media where you don't have an overall story and/or multiple writers working only partially in concert, but good editing and writing can mitigate it. 4 is what they opted for in TFA.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That's why I asked for clarification

Because when Umbran pointed out audience and critics found Rey plenty accessible, you replied with, in part:



Which implies you think the audiences and critics were, in part, tricked into finding her more accessible than she "actually" was, rather than consider that many people found her plenty accessible in the first place.

I'm not saying the movie, or even Rey's arc, is beyond reproach, but accessibility isn't a big flaw in Rey's character.

One problem with multi-volume stories is that some things need to remain unrevealed so that there's stuff to explore in later volumes. So writers are left with essentially four options:

1. leave nothing of a character's past to be explored later
2. waste time explaining things that won't be relevant until later (if ever)
3. have random, but important, background elements pop up in later volumes (Star Trek series are full of this)
4. touch on stuff just enough to show there's something there, but leave the details vague

I would like to think it's obvious 1 and 2 are poor choices for character development and pacing, respectively. 3 is typically inevitable in any sort of media where you don't have an overall story and/or multiple writers working only partially in concert, but good editing and writing can mitigate it. 4 is what they opted for in TFA.

I think the argument is that, since there are unknown and potentially bad things about Rey we should assume she's accessible. Why, I don't know, but that the gist of the argument I'm getting. Rey can't be fully trusted because she has unknown qualities. But, as you note, leaving Rey an open book might instill that trust (until the bits you didn't know you didn't know show up at least) but it leaves her very flat for the sequels.

 

[Jhaelen]

That *huge* hologram - the dude is compensating, and is probably Yoda-sized. "Snoke and mirrors" if you will.

Yup, I had two immediate reactions regarding Snoke:

- Oh dear, it's a crossover with Lord of the Rings - Gollum's back!

and

- I guess Snoke stole his hologram trickery from the Wizard of Oz.

 

[Umbran]

It's not what I intended to say, not what I think, and not what I said.

I kind of have to agree with Cor Azer on this. Apparently, *you* know what an accessible character is, and *everyone else* is just wrong, mistaken, misled, or shallow. That is a strange definition of "accessible" in this context - accessible is what Mr. Stevenson says it is, and how accessible everyone else seems to find it to be can go hang?

 

[Guest 85555]

I just saw the movie last night and really enjoyed it. Personally I found Rey and Finn both very accessible characters that I was eager to follow (primarily because of the actors which is what I think it almost always really boils down to). This was a well cast star wars movie and it felt like it fit in with the originals but also like it was picking up where they left off. I was expecting it to be mediocre (entertaining but mediocre) but was pleasantly surprised. For me this probably my second favorite star wars film after Empire.