Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[Guest 85555]

I think it was best washed over. We know it happened. Lucas knew it happened. Lucas knew we knew it happened. But a side trek into incest discussion wouldn't add anything to the movies. Best just move on and place that conversation in the same bucket as "when does Han Solo poop?"

We don't need to know that, and knowing it would probably diminish the film.

I agree. I think the films were good and that even though it presents a consistency issue, they made the right call. I was just trying to make the point that the new movie, like the original movie, can have those kinds of things and still be a good film. It isn't the end of the world for a movie to have plot holes or minor believability issues, if it serves the overall story.

 

[Maxperson]

And that would be fine because that is a reaction that is consistent with the revelation. But I'd expect a filmmaker to make that reaction clear to the viewer through visual cues or something, because it is a significant event.

Nah. Not that long after the event. I'm good with how it played out.

 

[dd.stevenson]

Somehow we got into a debate over whether Luke and Leia kissing constituted a plot hole.

That's because calling a tonal inconsistency a plot hole is a HuffPo-editor level of clickbaity misrepresentation. Just like calling THAC0 objectively bad, for example. Anyone's free to do it, but you have no reason to be bemused or puzzled that your lightning rod attracts lightning.

 

[Guest 85555]

That's because calling a tonal inconsistency a plot hole is a HuffPo-editor level of clickbaity misrepresentation. Just like calling THAC0 objectively bad, for example. Anyone's free to do it, but you have no reason to be bemused or puzzled that your lightning rod attracts lightning.

Well, I genuinely consider it an inconsistency in the film and a plot hole.

 

[Eltab]

<Luke and Leia> didn't know they were siblings at the time.

I saw this 'alternate script' in a book aimed at grade-school kids:

Scene: Dagobah. Yoda has just died. Ben's "ghost" and Luke talk.

Ben: ... and so, your sister has remained safely anonymous.
Luke: Leia! Leia is my sister!
Ben: Your insight serves you well. ... Something is troubling you?
Luke: Eeewww ! I KISSED her !

I wonder why, once the true relationship was established, all Ep4 re-releases since then don't show Leia giving Luke a huge smooch on the cheek "...for luck".

 

[Eltab]

in episode 5 <Vader> is meant to be the father. -snip- At least that has always been my reaction to the films.

When I first heard his classic line, I thought Vader was lying through his teeth (speech grille?) because (a) he's the villain! and (b) he wanted to confuse Luke, persuade Luke to stop fighting / resisting, and get curious enough to actually follow Vader away - to a place where he can better 'persuade' Luke. Such as, in the Emperor's presence.

Vader has no way to know this, but Luke held Uncle Owen in high regard. (Only obvious in retrospect; Owen serves as a barricade to Luke's youthful energy while alive.) When Luke says to Ben's ghost, "...I can't kill my own father...", he had to have images of Uncle Owen swimming before his eyes. Owen WAS his dad / father, in everything but name.

 

[Eltab]

But I'd expect the kiss to dawn on them once they became aware of their relationship and have some reaction to it.

In the middle of a war, the night before they initiate a major battle, against superior forces, and on a countdown clock? Maybe THAT discussion would be best left until the day after ... which coincidentally is also after the movie ends.

to all:
Incidentally there are TWO kiss scenes to explain: just before swinging over the Death Star bottomless pit, and in Luke's medical recovery room.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Why? If it happened to me I'd do my best to pretend it never happened. I wouldn't bring it up and be like, "Hey, do you remember the time..."

If it even comes to mind at all. I mean, they definitely have bigger fish to fry. And it was a while ago. And it wasn't an important moment in anyone's life.

That's because calling a tonal inconsistency a plot hole is a HuffPo-editor level of clickbaity misrepresentation. Just like calling THAC0 objectively bad, for example. Anyone's free to do it, but you have no reason to be bemused or puzzled that your lightning rod attracts lightning.

I'm not sure how THACO isn't objectively bad. That's not clickbaity misrepresentation, that's literally just a reasonable assertion.

I mean it might be subjectively not bad, in that it's arguably better than referencing multiple tables or whatever, but the extra complexity doesn't serve any useful purpose, and turned people off the game, because there are just easier ways to enjoy some time with friends, and some groups try to introduce the mechanics before introducing what's cool about roleplaying games, and the system it was replaced with accomplishes all the same goals, but does so more efficiently, while being easier to teach, since it is almost literally as straightforward and simple, yet effective, as such a system can be.

/rant

sorry, but sometimes even things we enjoy or enjoyed are just objectively less good than other similar things.


Anyway, this is getting nowhere. Those of us who never saw any inconsistency in them not mentioning or dealing with the kiss aren't going to suddenly see one now, and vise versa.

ALso, that article is legitimately fracking terrible!

Half of the points rely on misunderstandings of obvious things about the movie, and the rest are at least a stretch.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

"34. How do the Rathtars on Han's freighter get loose? If he's just keeping them loose in the hanger, why don't they kill him when he's walking through the freighter toward the Millennium Falcon, or at any other time? And if he's got them chained up, how do they escape?"

lol....um...I'm not sure this person even watched the movie. This is literally explicitly shown on screen.

 

[Guest 85555]

If it even comes to mind at all. I mean, they definitely have bigger fish to fry. And it was a while ago. And it wasn't an important moment in anyone's life.



I'm not sure how THACO isn't objectively bad. That's not clickbaity misrepresentation, that's literally just a reasonable assertion.

I mean it might be subjectively not bad, in that it's arguably better than referencing multiple tables or whatever, but the extra complexity doesn't serve any useful purpose, and turned people off the game, because there are just easier ways to enjoy some time with friends, and some groups try to introduce the mechanics before introducing what's cool about roleplaying games, and the system it was replaced with accomplishes all the same goals, but does so more efficiently, while being easier to teach, since it is almost literally as straightforward and simple, yet effective, as such a system can be.

/rant

sorry, but sometimes even things we enjoy or enjoyed are just objectively less good than other similar things.


Anyway, this is getting nowhere. Those of us who never saw any inconsistency in them not mentioning or dealing with the kiss aren't going to suddenly see one now, and vise versa.

ALso, that article is legitimately fracking terrible!

Half of the points rely on misunderstandings of obvious things about the movie, and the rest are at least a stretch.

I think THAC0 is objectively more mathy and has a slower learning curve. one benefit is that fuzziness makes things more cloudy for the players. So I find when I am a player in a game like that I tend to be less focused on my chances of success and more focused on what I am doing as a character (same with attack matrices). I do like that THAC0 is more contained than 3E (though I do think d20 is way more intuitive).