Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[Guest 85555]

If there's a change, it is between IV and V. We see right at the beginning of Empire Strikes Back that Han is the romantic interest for Leia, in the tunnels of ice on Hoth. And, the famous, "I love you," "I know," exchange between Han and Leia is in Empire Strikes Back as well. Heck, it was right there on the poster!
.

I agree that by the end of Empire Strikes back it is clear that Han and Leia are in love. My point is an essential aspect of Leia and Luke (their relationship to each other and their physical attraction to each other) changes from that episode to the last. She may have loved Han by the end of Empire, and that kiss may have been to piss him off, but it was still not a brother-sister kiss and clearly tender. In episode V they are visibly not brother and sister. This is very clear to the viewer. In Episode VI they are brother and sister. It is the same problem with Vader as the father. However that they at least address so it becomes less of a plot hole issue (with the whole speech ben gives about "from a certain point of view). But it is a similar problem. In episode four it is pretty clear vader isn't meant to be the father, but in episode V he is meant to be the father. I will say that Luke being Vader's son and Leia's brother makes the film work in the end. Those were both the right call, but they do create plot holes in the storyline because it is a big change to Luke's character that you sense with each film (and you know as you watch them that there is a trace of inconsistency there). At least that has always been my reaction to the films.

 

[MechaPilot]

Again, it is incest. It isn't a minor taboo. It is significant enough, that not addressing it, just attracts more attention to the inconsistency of it (because if we were meant to accept the kiss, I'd expect it to be dealt with down the road and not off camera). A little bit of 'ew' is how I would have expected adults to handle it. I am sure some people never found this terribly inconsistent, but it is one of the most common plothole concerns I encounter. Yes, you can read it as all being internally consistent within the film if you accept that the kiss happened and they didn't know. But it is so clear and obvious they didn't intend that, that it is very difficult to do.

Actually, in all fairness do we know that's a taboo in that galaxy far, far away? Also, she is royalty. Maybe it's not taboo to her. Maybe on Alderaan they've been brother-loving to keep their royal bloodline pure like the Pharaohs of Egypt.

 

[Guest 85555]

Actually, in all fairness we do know that's a taboo in that galaxy far, far away? Also, she is royalty. Maybe it's not taboo to her. Maybe on Alderaan they've been brother-loving to keep their royal bloodline pure like the Pharaohs of Egypt.

I did mention that as a possibility but they give us no indication that is the case. But it feels like a reach to me. If the audience is meant to accept it on those grounds, I'd expect them to address it in some way, to give the audience an idea that is the case.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

And that is fine, I am not saying you have to agree, but the opinion I am expressing is not an uncommon one. To me it isn't just a plot twist, those prior scenes don't just become attempts at humor, they just don't make sense in light of the new information because it is obvious they are not brother and sister in those scenes. Yes, a brother and sister might meet, not know they are siblings, and kiss....but we know the film makers wouldn't do that. It is meta but it is meta that I think is nearly impossible to ignore (at least for me it is). I believe that it isn't a problem for you. I believe that you don't notice it. But I assure you, I notice it every time I watch the trilogy and it always stands out to me as a glaring inconconsistency. It is an inconsistency I've come to find nothing more than a peculiar oddity at this point, but an inconsistency still. And that is fine. A movie about knights romping through space can have inconsistencies like that.

It isn't an inconsistency, though. It is just a thing that bugs you because meta.

 

[Maxperson]

I agree that by the end of Empire Strikes back it is clear that Han and Leia are in love. My point is an essential aspect of Leia and Luke (their relationship to each other and their physical attraction to each other) changes from that episode to the last. She may have loved Han by the end of Empire, and that kiss may have been to piss him off, but it was still not a brother-sister kiss and clearly tender. In episode V they are visibly not brother and sister. This is very clear to the viewer. In Episode VI they are brother and sister. It is the same problem with Vader as the father. However that they at least address so it becomes less of a plot hole issue (with the whole speech ben gives about "from a certain point of view). But it is a similar problem. In episode four it is pretty clear vader isn't meant to be the father, but in episode V he is meant to be the father. I will say that Luke being Vader's son and Leia's brother makes the film work in the end. Those were both the right call, but they do create plot holes in the storyline because it is a big change to Luke's character that you sense with each film (and you know as you watch them that there is a trace of inconsistency there). At least that has always been my reaction to the films.

Leia never found out that Luke was her brother until on Endor when Luke told her. The kiss she gave Luke was one where she didn't know he was her brother, so the type of kiss isn't really inappropriate.

 

[Guest 85555]

Leia never found out that Luke was her brother until on Endor when Luke told her. The kiss she gave Luke was one where she didn't know he was her brother, so the type of kiss isn't really inappropriate.

I realize that she wasn't aware he was her brother when she kissed him. But I'd expect the kiss to dawn on them once they became aware of their relationship and have some reaction to it.

 

[Maxperson]

I realize that she wasn't aware he was her brother when she kissed him. But I'd expect the kiss to dawn on them once they became aware of their relationship and have some reaction to it.

Why? If it happened to me I'd do my best to pretend it never happened. I wouldn't bring it up and be like, "Hey, do you remember the time..."

 

[Guest 85555]

Why? If it happened to me I'd do my best to pretend it never happened. I wouldn't bring it up and be like, "Hey, do you remember the time..."

And that would be fine because that is a reaction that is consistent with the revelation. But I'd expect a filmmaker to make that reaction clear to the viewer through visual cues or something, because it is a significant event.

 

[Morrus]

And that would be fine because that is a reaction that is consistent with the revelation. But I'd expect a filmmaker to make that reaction clear to the viewer through visual cues or something, because it is a significant event.

I think it was best washed over. We know it happened. Lucas knew it happened. Lucas knew we knew it happened. But a side trek into incest discussion wouldn't add anything to the movies. Best just move on and place that conversation in the same bucket as "when does Han Solo poop?"

We don't need to know that, and knowing it would probably diminish the film.

 

[Guest 85555]

It isn't an inconsistency, though. It is just a thing that bugs you because meta.

Well, we disagree on that point. But I don't see any reason for me to keep hammering home the same argument again and again. It is a relatively minor side trek that stemmed from me just trying to point out the first trilogy had plenty of flaws too. Somehow we got into a debate over whether Luke and Leia kissing constituted a plot hole.