Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy. It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good. I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team. Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their...

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.
ebdc7e9da0a98a020498d701b47512ef.jpg
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
It isn't so much a matter of declaring motivations (which even the prequels do), as establishing motivations. If the motivation is fairly expected and pedestrian, like Rey's desire to help the droid in that early establishing shot, then we don't need a great deal of setup--the simple contrast is enough. (I thought that scene was a fantastic take on the Be Nice To Animals trope, btw; and it did plot work as well!)

But if the character is acting against her own self interest, then more work is required to establish their motivation, else the narrative risks its characters acting stupid on demand (e.g., exhibiting contrived behavior for plot convenience.) One of the points that bugged me was the scene on the forest planet (I don't remember the place's name) when Rey insists that she's going to return to Jaku, despite being aware that she can do a lot better for herself. Who is she waiting for that she's willing to undergo so much hardship to wait for them at Jaku? Why is it so important that she personally be there, rather than just pay someone to deliver a message? Rey is the sympathetic protagonist, the character the audience is meant to follow and learn with, but in this scene her motivations are left to the imagination.

I understand that her reasons are probably being withheld for a reveal in a later installment. But personally I would rather wait and see THAT movie, instead of being strung along with a less-than-perfectly comprehensible protagonist, waiting for the punchline which never comes.

Rey makes a comment on the Falcon, to Finn, that she needs to go back. Something along the lines of 'they'll come back for me.' So that establishes that she's waiting for someone to return for her. Then, in the force echo images, we see her being left on Jakku with Simon Pegg as a ship flies away and she screams, 'no, come back!' Clearly, these are the people she's waiting for. Then, immediately after the force echo imagery, Maz Kanata tells her that she needs to let go of her belief that "they" are ever going to come back for her and she needs to accept her destiny with the lightsaber. Rey rejects this, and runs, becoming captured and setting up a chain of events where she does reject her childish beliefs and motivations and does accept her destiny. Or, at least, enough to get through the end of the movie, it might pop back up again.

So, to me, that motivation was clearly established -- it was foreshadowed with Finn, shown with Han, flashbacked in the force echo, and then challenged with Maz. All within about 30 minutes.
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
One of the points that bugged me was the scene on the forest planet (I don't remember the place's name) when Rey insists that she's going to return to Jaku, despite being aware that she can do a lot better for herself. Who is she waiting for that she's willing to undergo so much hardship to wait for them at Jaku? Why is it so important that she personally be there, rather than just pay someone to deliver a message?

I thought it was made pretty clear that she was waiting for family, who left her there as a child. There's no "message" to leave with someone else - if she goes wandering for any length of time, her family will show up, not find her, and likely leave again.

Rey is the sympathetic protagonist, the character the audience is meant to follow and learn with, but in this scene her motivations are left to the imagination.

The scene in her flashback, with the young girl crying as a ship flies away, made it pretty clear to me.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
It isn't so much a matter of declaring motivations (which even the prequels do), as establishing motivations. If the motivation is fairly expected and pedestrian, like Rey's desire to help the droid in that early establishing shot, then we don't need a great deal of setup--the simple contrast is enough. (I thought that scene was a fantastic take on the Be Nice To Animals trope, btw; and it did plot work as well!)

But if the character is acting against her own self interest, then more work is required to establish their motivation, else the narrative risks its characters acting stupid on demand (e.g., exhibiting contrived behavior for plot convenience.) One of the points that bugged me was the scene on the forest planet (I don't remember the place's name) when Rey insists that she's going to return to Jaku, despite being aware that she can do a lot better for herself. Who is she waiting for that she's willing to undergo so much hardship to wait for them at Jaku? Why is it so important that she personally be there, rather than just pay someone to deliver a message? Rey is the sympathetic protagonist, the character the audience is meant to follow and learn with, but in this scene her motivations are left to the imagination.

I understand that her reasons are probably being withheld for a reveal in a later installment. But personally I would rather wait and see THAT movie, instead of being strung along with a less-than-perfectly comprehensible protagonist, waiting for the punchline which never comes.

Why is that confusing? She's an abandoned kid. You don't ever stop being an abandoned kid. She has to wait because they're coming back. Sure, that's never going to happen, but just being gone as long as she has will have had her mind becoming more and more convinced that she may have missed them. They may have come back for her, and then she wasn't there. IT takes a lot to force someone out of that mindset. "Doing better for herself" isn't a strong motivator. In fact, for many people, in general, it's not a strong motivator.
The movie also suggests so strongly it might as well be explicit that she is waiting for family. Whether that is literally her parents, or someone with a similar role in her life at a young age doesn't really matter.

"Why does she run away from the lightsaber? Why did the vision scare her? It didn't scare me. Again, I need to know the protaganist's motivation."
It took me a while to know where to begin with this, because it just seems almost explicitly obvious. First of all, she's never experienced anything like that before. Second, the vision demands of her that she fulfill a destiny, one that runs counter to her obsessive need to keep faith that her parents/whatever will come back. The vision also shows her some dark stuff. It's totally nomal, especially in a story, for someone to run from something like that.

And there is literally nothing in the film that suggests that Rey is one of Luke's former students. She certainly isn't well trained with a lightsaber. She not only vaguely uses it like a staff, she also hesitantly mimics Finn's stance when she starts using it.

Maybe rewatch it without that impression, and her motivations will make more sense to you?

Let's see...the need to find Luke:
He's Leia's brother. If there was nothing else, that would be enough.
He is the guy who trained Kylo Ren. If there was nothing else, that would be enough.
He is the most powerful and knowledgeable light side force user anyone knows of. If there was nothing else, that would be enough.
He's the guy who defeated Vader and Palpatine, the guy who destroyed the first Death Star, probably the greatest hero of the Galactic Civil War. See above.
He's the last Jedi. For both sides, that is enough.

the Map: Why on earth would he leave it in one place/piece? That would not help him stay hidden. He left one part with R2, a trustworthy and reliable ally who has delivered such valuable intel a time or two before, and the other piece with an old friend and ally that most people would never even know to look for, hidden on a backwater world.
What about that doesn't make sense?
 

Lord Twig

Adventurer
I thought it was made pretty clear that she was waiting for family, who left her there as a child. There's no "message" to leave with someone else - if she goes wandering for any length of time, her family will show up, not find her, and likely leave again.



The scene in her flashback, with the young girl crying as a ship flies away, made it pretty clear to me.

This was very clear to me as well. She was waiting for her family. That's a pretty strong motivation.

As to why her family left her there, that's a big question. But it is a good one. One that makes me want to see the future movies to find out that "why".

So who is Rey? I don't think she is Han and Leia's daughter, that just doesn't fit for me. She might be Luke's daughter, but if she is, I don't think Luke knows he has a daughter. There is no way he would leave her with the unpleasant scavenger guy. If she was left, then she was left by her mother. Maybe a brief fling with a Force using woman (possibly dark side)? I'm not really in to the expanded universe stuff, but even I am aware of Mara Jade.

All that said I would be perfectly happy if she was completely unrelated. There are other people that can use the force besides the Skywalkers.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
There is no way he would leave her with the unpleasant scavenger guy.

Well, I don';t think he did leave Rey with him. In the flashback of child-Rey, she's crying as a ship leaves, and there is a hand on her arm, holding her back. I think that hand is human, and there's a voice that I believe is Max Von Sydow, not Pegg - I think she was left with Lor San Tekka, who watches over her from a distance, to avoid drawing attention to her. Her dealing with Unkar Plutt (Pegg's character) then wasn't guardianship. That was just business to get her food.

And then it becomes more clear why Tekka had the map...

I have heard apocrypha/rumor that Tekka is a religious follower of the Force (as opposed to a *user* of it. Maz Kanata might also be a follower). It may be he was a scholar that Luke turned to when searching for old temples. So, perhaps it is less that Luke left the map with Tekka, as Tekka gave the map to Luke, and thus had the same information to give to Poe.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Well, I don';t think he did leave Rey with him. In the flashback of child-Rey, she's crying as a ship leaves, and there is a hand on her arm, holding her back. I think that hand is human, and there's a voice that I believe is Max Von Sydow, not Pegg - I think she was left with Lor San Tekka, who watches over her from a distance, to avoid drawing attention to her.

That's my guess. I'm also wondering if the word "family" is used in a broad sense here, meaning her "jedi trainee family", and that memory is what's been suppressed in her by Luke with a mental block to protect her, leaving her with just a vague familial impression.
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
Well, I don';t think he did leave Rey with him. In the flashback of child-Rey, she's crying as a ship leaves, and there is a hand on her arm, holding her back. I think that hand is human...

That's one ugly, bulbous, Unkar-Plutt-looking human!

Regarding Tekka and the map - doesn't the opening crawl imply he has only recently discovered it?

-Hyp.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
That's one ugly, bulbous, Unkar-Plutt-looking human!

I wasn't watching for it, specifically, so I might be wrong. And I'm not paying for another ticket to double check :p

Regarding Tekka and the map - doesn't the opening crawl imply he has only recently discovered it?

The opening crawl of "Empire Strikes Back" claims that Luke is the leader of the Rebels at Hoth, which seems a bit of an overstatement.

The opening crawl of "Attack of the Clones" claims Dooku is in charge of the Separatists, when in reality it is Palpatine.

The opening crawl of "Revenge of the Sith" claims that General Grievous is a droid, when he's actually a cyborg.

So, the crawls are not necessarily 100% accurate, and in one case gives less than the absolute truth to avoid spoiling the plot.

Maybe he "discovered" it like, "Hey, lookit this! It has been at the bottom of my sock drawer for, like, a decade, now? And stuff looks bad out there. Maybe it is time to get it to the Resistance..." :p
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
The rescue from the enemy? Luke and Co infiltrate an Imperial base and bust out the princess in A New Hope. In TFA Finn the Stormtrooper defects from the First Order and grabs a pilot prisoner to help him escape. Again, quite a different story.

There's more than one rescue in TFA. The rescue of Rei is very much a callback to rescuing Leia from the death star (although Rei was holding her own much more ably than Leia was due to Rei's strength with the force).
 

Lord Twig

Adventurer
There's more than one rescue in TFA. The rescue of Rei is very much a callback to rescuing Leia from the death star (although Rei was holding her own much more ably than Leia was due to Rei's strength with the force).

Fair point. Of course Leia is supposed to be very strong with the Force as well, but it probably didn't occur to her to try and use it. It probably did help her resist the interrogation, just like Rey.

But again, just as there are similarities, there are differences. The various bits are mixed up enough with a bunch of new things to make it distinctly its own story. It never felt like I was watching a remake or a reboot. It was only after the movie was over that I started thinking about the similarities.

Really Rey isn't like Leia getting captured, it is more like Luke getting captured.

And I'm pretty sure it was Unkar Plutt's hand that was holding Rey back. I didn't notice it the first time I saw the movie, but the second time I though it looked like his. I could be wrong of course, it was just a quick look.
 

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