D&D 5E Starter Set Character Sheet Revealed!

[Mistwell]

What page is Second Wind from in 3e PHB ? I don't see it in the 3e PHB. The 3e fighter CAN'T instantly heal himself like he can in 4e/5e. All those other books are late 3.5e/4e changes that I also rebuke.. but at least they are optional.

Miniature's Handbook was actually 3.0e, not even 3.5e, though it was valid to take it as a feat in 3.5e and is part of the SRD. Regardless, bottom line, you're wrong about it being late in the 3.5e/4e cycle. It's actually pretty early there. And of course Eberron was a highly popular 3.5e setting book, that also was not late in the 3.5 cycle.

Why am I here? I'm here hoping someone will prove me wrong and tell me that 5e will have the options I need to play. So far all you've done is try to justify non-magical healing. I don't care for that style of gaming. I don't play that way and I never will play that way. In fact, I don't play 4e because of it.

Of course it will have the options you need to play - but the options book for this time around will be the DMG, so you will have to wait a few months before you get them. But yes, they've said outright there will be optional modules in the DMG to allow you to play a 1e, 2e, 3e, or 4e style game, depending on your preferences, along with conversion instructions for each.

 

[VengerSatanis]

What page is Second Wind from in 3e PHB ? I don't see it in the 3e PHB. The 3e fighter CAN'T instantly heal himself like he can in 4e/5e. All those other books are late 3.5e/4e changes that I also rebuke.. but at least they are optional.

The onus is on you to prove 5e isn't like 4e. Everyone I play with thinks 5e is just going to be more of the same. That's the perception out there! That's the hurdle 5e MUST overcome.

I have desire to play a D&D game that isn't like 4e. Instant auto healing like SW/healing surges is one very strong indication that the game hasn't moved on from its mistakes. IMO it appears to be going in the wrong direction and because of that I won't be playing it.

Why am I here? I'm here hoping someone will prove me wrong and tell me that 5e will have the options I need to play. So far all you've done is try to justify non-magical healing. I don't care for that style of gaming. I don't play that way and I never will play that way. In fact, I don't play 4e because of it.

I feel ya, hoss. At this point, I don't think anyone is able to prove anything. The game hasn't been released yet. From everything I've taken in thus far (both sides of the issue), 5e is a compromise all the way from 1st to 4th edition. It tries taking the best parts of all the editions into account while adding just a couple of new things like advantage/disadvantage and streamlined things that were too unwieldy or inefficient (or dumb, depending on your view) from prior editions like the skill list and healing surges.

Will you be ok with this compromise? Well, that depends on the individual... on you. I've been asking myself that question all day: Am I willing to put up with a few things I don't like in order to play and enjoy the latest edition of the world's original tabletop fantasy roleplaying game? The answer: Probably. Sure, from what I've seen, I like 5e better than 3rd and 4th editions... and with 1st and 2nd it's a mixed bag. There are some noticeable improvements along with some stuff I could really do without.

VS

 

[Mistwell]

Nope, you can't just brush that off.

I can. I just did. So did hundreds of others reading it. If an obvious abusive loophole is something you think will be a real serious problem for your game, the problem is your game. Because common sense still applies, even for a game. There are legit issues with some rules like that, but this type of pun-pun or bag-of-rats type loophole isn't a realistic problem it's a purely theoretical angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin type problem.

 

[Remathilis]

What page is Second Wind from in 3e PHB ? I don't see it in the 3e PHB. The 3e fighter CAN'T instantly heal himself like he can in 4e/5e. All those other books are late 3.5e/4e changes that I also rebuke.. but at least they are optional.

The onus is on you to prove 5e isn't like 4e. Everyone I play with thinks 5e is just going to be more of the same. That's the perception out there! That's the hurdle 5e MUST overcome.

I have desire to play a D&D game that isn't like 4e. Instant auto healing like SW/healing surges is one very strong indication that the game hasn't moved on from its mistakes. IMO it appears to be going in the wrong direction and because of that I won't be playing it.

Why am I here? I'm here hoping someone will prove me wrong and tell me that 5e will have the options I need to play. So far all you've done is try to justify non-magical healing. I don't care for that style of gaming. I don't play that way and I never will play that way. In fact, I don't play 4e because of it.

5e isn't like 4e because of one healing ability that they (poorly) tried to implement in 2003 (Minis HB preceeds Complete Warrior) and that worked JUST FINE in Star Wars and other d20 spin offs.

The core rules allow a small amount of HP recovery to fighters. It's not better than Cure Wounds (2d8+2 per spell level vs 1d10+ fighter level). This is also not a warlord shouting up his allies. This is to represent a fighter ignoring the pain once to soldier through and take one last blow. Despite people thinking that a fighter can sit in a tree and regenerate, I wager it's far more limited and isn't putting the cleric out of a job.

Wait until the DMG comes out to decide if you can tweak slower healing to your like. House rule it when it comes out; it is one ability of one class, it's not baked in healing surges were.

Or don't and have fun playing 1e.

 

[SkidAce]

Everyone I play with thinks 5e is just going to be more of the same. That's the perception out there! That's the hurdle 5e MUST overcome.

That's odd.

Everybody that I play with thinks 5e is moving away from 4e.

I wonder what the difference is....

 

[VengerSatanis]

I can. I just did. So did hundreds of others reading it. If an obvious abusive loophole is something you think will be a real serious problem for your game, the problem is your game. Because common sense still applies, even for a game. There are legit issues with some rules like that, but this type of pun-pun or bag-of-rats type loophole isn't a realistic problem it's a purely theoretical angels-dancing-on-the-head-of-a-pin type problem.

And I can respond with blah blah blahdee blah blah. Doesn't make it a legit argument. Pinning the crime of poor game design on powergamers just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. But if you don't mind that perception, that's cool.

VS

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Where you're losing me is that you don't need a resolution mechanic when the game's not actively being played. When you're world-building, setting-expanding, or detailing events a few continents away. If there's a clash between armies the next country over, I'm not going to game it out. If there's a construction crew building a temple, I'm not going to roll skill checks for every worker. I don't particularly need mechanics to explain how the evil wizard built a megadungeon in ancient times.

Maybe you don't, but if I'm going to build a world that's internally consistent, then whatever is going on in the background must resolve similarly to how it would happen if we were actually paying attention to it. After all, our "focus" is a meta-game effect that doesn't exist within the game world, and is thus not allowed to influence anything.

 

[sidonunspa]

I'm getting a sense of dejavu. Maybe it's just that I've witnessed this exact argument dozens of times over the last couple months. With old school D&D, you don't have to "just attack" as a fighter - or any other class. Describe what you want to do and the DM will either give you options, adjudicate, make you roll something, and/or describe what happens as a result of your drop down from a ledge while plunging your sword into the Ogre's skull.

It's not a feat, power, skill, or at-will/encounter anything. Just something you roleplay.

VS

Except that's not how it works with most game maters... you may be an exception, but most are not...

you look at everything a fighter can do in 1e, and you see.. well.. attacking.. they later included rules for disarming in unearthed arcana.. but there is not much on your character sheet...

you get a "by the book" GM and you quickly have a "why bother" scenario.

My current GM is one of those GMs..... I'm playing a Cleric/Magic-User because of the way he GMs.... the fighters just roll their attacks and deal damage... now I have seen the players attempt what you outline above; but it never ends well.. Ex, the Drow Fighter didn't want to kill two attackers so he wanted to slash at their hands and ask them to yield... GM had him roll damage after which the GM informed him that he rolled to high on damage and killed them both...

Now I always load 2 speak with dead spells.... always...

Some GMs (you, for example) seem to encourage out of the box thinking and hand out bonus... heck when I run even even hand wave and grant "instant success/kills" when acts are well thought out or damn cool (foe example: sneaking up behind a guard, roll a successful attack without Advantage.. I''l just say you dropped them.. no need to roll damage)

but that's not the vast majority of GMs.. sadly

 

[Phaezen]

And I can respond with blah blah blahdee blah blah. Doesn't make it a legit argument. Pinning the crime of poor game design on powergamers just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. But if you don't mind that perception, that's cool.

VS

Alternately, the players and DM can act logically and have a gentleman's agreement that loopholes and edge cases are run in the way that is best for the story.

 

[SigmaOne]

And I can respond with blah blah blahdee blah

You sure can, can't you. Great contribution.