D&D 5E Starter Set Contents Teaser

[Morrus]

I talk about that too on the blog.

The MSRP is $20 ($12 is the steep Amazon discount, not what you'll find at the FLGS). Looking at Pathfinder $35 MSRP (was $23 on Amazon), and the deduct some contents (it contains a higher page count, standees and the dry/wet erase flip mat). The flip mat itself is at least $10 of that MSRP price point. Put in slightly fewer standee tokens, and you can hit the $25 MSRP with slightly better contents.

Sure, of course you can sell different packages at different prices. They decided that $20 was the price point they wanted, not $25, and which they believe will shift more product.

Hey, maybe your analysis is right and theirs is wrong. I imagine plenty of market research went into that price point though.

 

[fjw70]

I was surprised about the lack to two items:

1) Poster map
2) Tokens or Standees (pawns)

Before someone jumps down my throats with a "5e is not focused on gridded combat" defense, I say phooey to that. Even Theater of the Mind groups enjoy nice looking maps and character pawns. Back when I played D&D in the 80's, we often used combat maps and minis during TotM play... Not because we were doing 3.x/4e style tactics, but because it gives you a good visual of where things are in the encounter. It helped the player understand the scene being described by the GM.

Second, 5th Edition needs to capture 4e players as well as old school players. There will be a *lot* of buyers who want to have the combat grid available.

Thirdly, they give shelf appeal. The first thing consumers do when picking up a product like this is turn over the box to see the pictures of the box contents. If you look at the Pathfinder Beginner Box, the contents sold themselves. You look at the pawns and the maps and the full color everything and say "Wow, I want this."

I'm not seeing the "wow" factor with the Starter Set.

I spent some time talking about this in more detail in a post I did last month on my blog:
ragingowlbear.blogspot.com/2014/05/d-starter-set-fiasco.html

If you were using maps and tokens then it wasn't TotM. It may not be as tactical as 3/4e but it wasn't TotM either IMO.

I think tokens would have scared away some people as they dismiss it as just another 3/4e like game. They would have ran around shouting "see you need maps and tokens/minis to play this game." and probably would have not looked any further.

Players turned off by non maps and tokens may avoid this product but will probably take a look at the full line later.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I talk about that too on the blog.

The MSRP is $20 ($12 is the steep Amazon discount, not what you'll find at the FLGS). Looking at Pathfinder $35 MSRP (was $23 on Amazon), and the deduct some contents (it contains a higher page count, standees and the dry/wet erase flip mat). The flip mat itself is at least $10 of that MSRP price point. Put in slightly fewer standee tokens, and you can hit the $25 MSRP with slightly better contents.

...

Looks like they went for dirt cheap. 12$ vs 23$ makes it much more of an impulse buy. They could probably have made a deluxe starter set or something, but for that audience, they have the rest of their lineup.

 

[DMZ2112]

Looks like they went for dirt cheap. 12$ vs 23$ makes it much more of an impulse buy. They could probably have made a deluxe starter set or something, but for that audience, they have the rest of their lineup.

The deluxe starter is free.

 

[timbannock]

I was surprised about the lack to two items:

1) Poster map
2) Tokens or Standees (pawns)

Before someone jumps down my throats with a "5e is not focused on gridded combat" defense, I say phooey to that. Even Theater of the Mind groups enjoy nice looking maps and character pawns. Back when I played D&D in the 80's, we often used combat maps and minis during TotM play... Not because we were doing 3.x/4e style tactics, but because it gives you a good visual of where things are in the encounter. It helped the player understand the scene being described by the GM.

Second, 5th Edition needs to capture 4e players as well as old school players. There will be a *lot* of buyers who want to have the combat grid available.

Thirdly, they give shelf appeal. The first thing consumers do when picking up a product like this is turn over the box to see the pictures of the box contents. If you look at the Pathfinder Beginner Box, the contents sold themselves. You look at the pawns and the maps and the full color everything and say "Wow, I want this."

I'm not seeing the "wow" factor with the Starter Set.

I spent some time talking about this in more detail in a post I did last month on my blog:
ragingowlbear.blogspot.com/2014/05/d-starter-set-fiasco.html

I agree. Considering how much mileage they (Wizards) got out of stuff during both 3e and 4e that regarded poster maps (those cool little 1-off encounter locations like Fane of the Drow and whatnot) and the little cardboard tokens, I'm surprised there's not an option for that.

Though...

I talk about that too on the blog.

The MSRP is $20 ($12 is the steep Amazon discount, not what you'll find at the FLGS). Looking at Pathfinder $35 MSRP (was $23 on Amazon), and the deduct some contents (it contains a higher page count, standees and the dry/wet erase flip mat). The flip mat itself is at least $10 of that MSRP price point. Put in slightly fewer standee tokens, and you can hit the $25 MSRP with slightly better contents.


EDIT: When you look back at the D&D "Basic Game" sets they put out back in 2004/2006, those really had good contents. Thick cardboard map board, pre-painted minis, etc... and they did that at a reasonable price point. Even with inflation, a paper maps and cardboard tokens could still be contained in a reasonably priced box. Consider also the razor-blades economics. Sell the razor at break even price, make money on the blades (i.e. - core books).

Looks like they went for dirt cheap. 12$ vs 23$ makes it much more of an impulse buy. They could probably have made a deluxe starter set or something, but for that audience, they have the rest of their lineup.

Both very good points. I would still suggest that Wizards has enough "older" material that could be re-purposed to add map and/or tokens to the set at little or no cost, or would come out as a valuable loss-leader, at least. I mean, I get that *any* new art is going to cost money, but when you consider what the art was on previous maps (that's easy to re-use) and tokens (they probably have a template for dropping in any piece of character art and cropping just the face out so that the token is a headshot), it's not like this is a hard thing to do. Assuming they used templates, we're literally talking about *any* map and *any* character-centric artwork that will show up in the new edition just being cropped in a template and the artwork is done. An intern could do that stuff in 2-3 hours of work, tops, and have enough material for this Starter Box and a couple adventures besides.

That said, I still get the point about the economics of it, so I'm not actually complaining. It was just surprising to see that missing, is all.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Both very good points. I would still suggest that Wizards has enough "older" material that could be re-purposed to add map and/or tokens to the set at little or no cost, or would come out as a valuable loss-leader

I think they hope to sell a lot of the starter set, and actually make money on it too. As mentioned earlier, if it gets into the same stores as Settlers of Catan (basically any book store), it could maybe sell enough to pay for the whole 5e development?

 

[Morrus]

I agree. Considering how much mileage they (Wizards) got out of stuff during both 3e and 4e that regarded poster maps (those cool little 1-off encounter locations like Fane of the Drow and whatnot) and the little cardboard tokens, I'm surprised there's not an option for that.

Though...





Both very good points. I would still suggest that Wizards has enough "older" material that could be re-purposed to add map and/or tokens to the set at little or no cost, or would come out as a valuable loss-leader, at least. I mean, I get that *any* new art is going to cost money, but when you consider what the art was on previous maps (that's easy to re-use) and tokens (they probably have a template for dropping in any piece of character art and cropping just the face out so that the token is a headshot), it's not like this is a hard thing to do. Assuming they used templates, we're literally talking about *any* map and *any* character-centric artwork that will show up in the new edition just being cropped in a template and the artwork is done. An intern could do that stuff in 2-3 hours of work, tops, and have enough material for this Starter Box and a couple adventures besides.

That said, I still get the point about the economics of it, so I'm not actually complaining. It was just surprising to see that missing, is all.

It's not the cost of the art! It's the cost to print and ship the posters and tokens.

 

[MartyW]

Looks like they went for dirt cheap. 12$ vs 23$ makes it much more of an impulse buy. They could probably have made a deluxe starter set or something, but for that audience, they have the rest of their lineup.

I think you may have overlooked some of the detail in the analysis... If one uses the Pathfinder model, but then cut back just a little to put the new MSRP at $25 with the additions instead of $20, the Amazon price would still be close to $15.

So, for $3 - $5 more (and slightly slimmer profit margin) and you make the box go from "Meh" to "Wow". That's where I believe they are mis-stepping.

 

[Morrus]

I think you may have overlooked some of the detail in the analysis... If one uses the Pathfinder model, but then cut back just a little to put the new MSRP at $25 with the additions instead of $20, the Amazon price would still be close to $15.

So, for $3 - $5 more (and slightly slimmer profit margin) and you make the box go from "Meh" to "Wow". That's where I believe they are mis-stepping.

$5 difference can often make sales double or half, though. There's a lot of psychology involved in setting price points. Plus costs fluctuate, especially shipping costs which are insane right now. It's easy to second guess them when you don't have all the information.

 

[am181d]

1) Poster map
2) Tokens or Standees

While I don't object to the digression, I was talking about the table of contents and rules covered. Not other components that might be included in the set.

That said, I think it's a good thing that the Starter set doesn't include maps and pawns if the new edition isn't intended to require such things. The point is to get players playing the game as soon as possible. Giving them extra stuff that's not part of the core game defeats that purpose.

I do think that a more upscale boxed set with pawns and maps and tactical rules would be a logical product to release in 2015.