Starting a new M&M campaign...

[The_Warlock]

Hey...maybe Atlantis didn't sink...it went to Venus! (Maybe too Stargate-ey.)

Much like cowbell, there is never enough Stargate!

But rather than Atlantis went to Venus...long ago, something from Venus stole some people from Atlantis.

It's an old old war, that no one talks about in the Lemurian Text books, because it was a shadow war, possibly fought in a sub-dimension.

It ended because the weapons used destroyed or cut off the sub-dimension, and thus it's easy connection between worlds.

Now with space galleons, the old and decadent race(s) of Venus meet the children of the world they once fought.

Will they be sly and welcome them as if never before known? Or will they wage a guerilla war, blaming the younger races of Venus with subterfuge.

And what about the remanants of the two great empires warriors trapped lo these many millenia in a parallel dimension of mist, shadow, and tentacled horrors? Could be they hate EVERYBODY.

 

[ValhallaGH]

But rather than Atlantis went to Venus...long ago, something from Venus stole some people from Atlantis.

It's an old old war, that no one talks about in the Lemurian Text books, because it was a shadow war, possibly fought in a sub-dimension.

It ended because the weapons used destroyed or cut off the sub-dimension, and thus it's easy connection between worlds.

Now with space galleons, the old and decadent race(s) of Venus meet the children of the world they once fought.

Will they be sly and welcome them as if never before known? Or will they wage a guerilla war, blaming the younger races of Venus with subterfuge.

Or, like their former foes, have they totally forgotten the past? Thus making the records and evidence of this ancient conflict a starting point for a new conflict between the worlds, one based upon modern distrust, imperialist attitudes, resource desire, and "redress of ancient grievances".
Preventing / mitigating this interplanetary war could be the focus of a major campaign arc, with powers from both worlds trying to start / stop the war.

 

[Herobizkit]

Any chance you'd be willing to move so I can play, too, Danny? I would love to play in such a wacky setting.

You could PbP it...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've been giving some thought to the design of PCs, since I'm going to be the GM and all, and I'm finding that while I can just about stat them out in HERO while sleeping, I'm having a little problem getting the kind of subtlety that I want out of M&M.

(This campaign will probably be set in the 1920s, about 20 years after the events in the campaign's previous version.)

So, drawing together some of the stuff discussed above...

Dr. Zeus: I've decided that he'll be a super-intelligent orangutan who was once a lab animal at the Cavorite Academy. His intelligence was radically increased by one of the Academy's instructors, and to stave off further experimentation upon himself, he killed the scientist and escaped...but not without getting a few supplies.

In my mind, he is going to be a recurring villain- intelligent and resourceful. He may be caught, but he will often escape.

Appearance: This large male ourangutan has a taste for stylish leather trenchcoats, especially in a natural brown leather. Over his eyes, he wears brass pince-nez modified for his simian physiology, but he has a flip-down darkly tinted visor. His hands and feet are covered by large black rubber gloves. The top of his head is covered by a glasslike dome which reveals a brain too large for his skull. He speaks like Mojojojo from Powderpuff Girls.

Powers & Equipment: With the equipment he stole from the lab (and subsequent thefts), he has made a portable lightning gun and grenades based on the technology created by Nicola Tesla. His trenchcoat has some armor plating in it. His visor prevents him from being blinded by flash attacks, including his own. He is phenomenally strong- bench around 2000lbs- and can move about in trees just as fast as he can run.

Spring-Heeled Jack:

Appearance: Definitely a bit Batman-esque, but instead of a cowl & cape, he's wearing a red-lensed metal helmet with metal horns, and aviator's jacket modified with metal studs. He wears leather pants. His black gloves have metal plates in them and have slightly clawed metal tips. His heavy boots are jacketed with a tubular metal framework that attaches to 2 compressed air cylinders on his back. IOW, he's one part Batman, one part Wolverine, and one part Commando Cody

Powers & Equipment: His "brass knuckles" and air-piston jump assist frame remain unchanged, and he'll probably carry some kind of fighting stick or baton(s). His utility belt will include smoke grenades and a grapple cable. He may carry a firearm...perhaps a Colt 1911 Automatic, perhaps with incendiary rounds. He has an Indian Motorcycle which will be his main means of getting around- the pistons are mainly for use in battle.

My problems: I want Zeus' lightning gun to fire multiple inaccurate bolts in a cone from the gun's business end. Near as I can tell, this would be a Blast with Autofire and Line or Cone AoE, but I can't figure out how to make the bolts inaccurate- ideally, target selection in the cone would be randomly determined. Would that be Uncontrolled? Limited?

I want to do the same thing with his grenades, except with Burst AoE.

Both should also produce blinding flashes of light.

For Jack, the trick is how to make his pneumatic jumps a limited resource. As I understand it, modifying Leap with Unreliable (the alternate "recharge" rule) gets me close by giving him 5 jumps of the same power before he has to recharge. However, I was hoping he could be designed to have a "pool" of ...say...200 yards worth of jumping, and he has to set the distance with pressure release valves. IOW, he could do one 200 yard jump, or twenty 10 yard jumps, or any combination adding up to 200 yards of jumping.

I'd also like for him to be able to expend a "charge" from his air tanks to do a pneumatically assisted kick in combat. As I understand it, this would be some kind of Power Feat.

Hints?

 

[ValhallaGH]

I've been giving some thought to the design of PCs, since I'm going to be the GM and all, and I'm finding that while I can just about stat them out in HERO while sleeping, I'm having a little problem getting the kind of subtlety that I want out of M&M.

Odd, I have the exact opposite reaction. I suppose it's a matter of what you're used to.
One of the nice things about villains specifically, and NPCs in general, is that you don't need to worry about their point costs. Set the PL, assign them whatever fits, and you're done.

As a courtesy, I'll throw together a build of Dr. Zues. Begun at 02:15 local time.

Dr. Zeus:

PL 9 [Allowing him to really tear into a bunch of PL 6 characters while still being beatable, if only barely]

ABILITIES:
STR 27 (+8)
DEX 15 (+2)
CON 20 (+5)
INT 24/2 (+7)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 17 (+3)

SAVES:
TOUGH +10 (+8 without coat)
FORT +9
REF +6 (+12 vs visual Dazzles)
WILL +8

SKILLS:
Acrobatics 5 (+7), Climb 13 (+18), Craft (electronic) 8 (+15), Craft (mechanical) 8 (+15), Intimidate 6 (+9), Knowledge (physical sciences) 8 (+15), Knowledge (technology) 8 (+15), Notice 8 (+12), Sense Motive 8 (+12)

FEATS:
Acrobatic Bluff, Attack Focus 3 (melee), Equipment 5 (various bases and vehicles), Improved Pin, Inventor, Master Plan, Power Attack

POWERS:
Device 4 (Lightning Gun, easy-to-lose, Restricted: Size Large or larger), Device 4 (Tesla Bombs, easy-to-lose), Device 1 (Protective Costume, hard-to-lose), Enhanced Intelligence 22, Growth 4 (permanent, innate), Protection 3 (thick hide), Super-Movement 1 (swinging), Super-Senses 2 (low-light vision, scent)
Lightning Gun: Blast 9 (Area: Cone, Range: Touch; Alternate: Dazzle [visual] 9, cone area; Alternate: Blast 3 and Dazzle [vision and hearing] 4, cone area)
Tesla Bombs: Blast 6 (Area: Burst; Alternate: Dazzle [visual and hearing] 4, burst area; Alternate: Stun 4, ranged, burst area)
Protective Costume: Protection 2, Sensory Shield 3

COMBAT:
Attack +5, +8 (melee); Damage +8 (unarmed), by device; Grapple +21; Defense +8, +4 flat-footed; Knockback -6, -4 without costume.

DRAWBACKS:
Noticeable - Protection power, due to thick hide.
Noticeable - Enhanced Intelligence, brain in a jar.
Vulnerable - +50% to flattery; sense of superiority.

COMPLICATIONS:*
Hatred: human race in general.
Obsession: gain power to be free from human influence.
Obsession: "punish" humanity for it's monstrous actions.
Prejudice: freakish experimental ape, shunned by man and ape alike.

*As an NPC, Dr. Zeus doesn't get Hero Points for his complications. These are included as role-playing notes.


He can do everything you've requested. Feel free to use him, ignore him, or rebuild him. Good luck.

Finished at 02:31 local time.

Edit: I realize this doesn't answer all of your questions, but I'm wondering if it clears up the underlying concepts. If it doesn't, I'll try helping out with some of the specific issues you've raised.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Me
I've been giving some thought to the design of PCs, since I'm going to be the GM and all, and I'm finding that while I can just about stat them out in HERO while sleeping, I'm having a little problem getting the kind of subtlety that I want out of M&M.

Odd, I have the exact opposite reaction. I suppose it's a matter of what you're used to.

That's it entirely- its not the system, its my unfamiliarity. I have years of experience (dating back to its release in the 1980s) constructing powers in HERO (my #1 system), and while I like M&M (my 2nd favorite system), I've never gotten to actually use it, so my grasp of the mechanics is incomplete. I can design HERO PCs in my head; M&M will take some getting used to.

One of the nice things about villains specifically, and NPCs in general, is that you don't need to worry about their point costs. Set the PL, assign them whatever fits, and you're done.

I missed that!

Still, I need to be familiar enough with the system to be able to aid some of the less experienced gamers in the group if they ask for help. (Your build helps me in that respect.)

Dr Zeus:
PL 9 [Allowing him to really tear into a bunch of PL 6 characters while still being beatable, if only barely]

ABILITIES:
STR 27 (+8)
DEX 15 (+2)
CON 20 (+5)
INT 24/2 (+7)
WIS 18 (+4)
CHA 17 (+3)

SAVES:
TOUGH +10 (+8 without coat)
FORT +9
REF +6 (+12 vs visual Dazzles)
WILL +8

SKILLS:
Acrobatics 5 (+7), Climb 13 (+18), Craft (electronic) 8 (+15), Craft (mechanical) 8 (+15), Intimidate 6 (+9), Knowledge (physical sciences) 8 (+15), Knowledge (technology) 8 (+15), Notice 8 (+12), Sense Motive 8 (+12)

FEATS:
Acrobatic Bluff, Attack Focus 3 (melee), Equipment 5 (various bases and vehicles), Improved Pin, Inventor, Master Plan, Power Attack

POWERS:
Device 4 (Lightning Gun, easy-to-lose, Restricted: Size Large or larger), Device 4 (Tesla Bombs, easy-to-lose), Device 1 (Protective Costume, hard-to-lose), Enhanced Intelligence 22, Growth 4 (permanent, innate), Protection 3 (thick hide), Super-Movement 1 (swinging), Super-Senses 2 (low-light vision, scent)
Lightning Gun: Blast 9 (Area: Cone, Range: Touch; Alternate: Dazzle [visual] 9, cone area; Alternate: Blast 3 and Dazzle [vision and hearing] 4, cone area)
Tesla Bombs: Blast 6 (Area: Burst; Alternate: Dazzle [visual and hearing] 4, burst area; Alternate: Stun 4, ranged, burst area)
Protective Costume: Protection 2, Sensory Shield 3

COMBAT:
Attack +5, +8 (melee); Damage +8 (unarmed), by device; Grapple +21; Defense +8, +4 flat-footed; Knockback -6, -4 without costume.

DRAWBACKS:
Noticeable - Protection power, due to thick hide.
Noticeable - Enhanced Intelligence, brain in a jar.
Vulnerable - +50% to flattery; sense of superiority.

COMPLICATIONS:*
Hatred: human race in general.
Obsession: gain power to be free from human influence.
Obsession: "punish" humanity for it's monstrous actions.
Prejudice: freakish experimental ape, shunned by man and ape alike.

*As an NPC, Dr. Zeus doesn't get Hero Points for his complications. These are included as role-playing notes.

He can do everything you've requested. Feel free to use him, ignore him, or rebuild him. Good luck.

Thanks! That really does clear up some of my confusion and you're right, I could probably use him as is and everyone would get chills of awe! You even nailed his psyche AND his increased size (I missed that).

(Its PCs like this that get players salivating to play- in the HERO version, everyone wanted to tangle with the guy in the steam-powered battlesuit, even though he wasn't the BBEG.)

Some questions:

1) In the blasts, you have things marked "Alternate"- are those different ways of using the powers or just different ways of building the power? IOW, does he have all of those capabilities within a given weapon, or just one?

2) I guess I'm just not seeing it, but how did you address the "inaccuracy" issue in his Tesla weapons (if at all)?

To clarify, Lightning is deucedly difficult to aim, so one of the ideas behind making it Autofire + Line AoE was that there would be bolts striking all over the place in there, and some people in the AoE might get struck multiple times while others might not be touched. That was also why I was trying to see if there was a way to do random targeting within the AoE. Its going to be an inherent and ongoing flaw in his weapon systems- as a master villain, I see him doing so much more, of course- so that its possible that a brave and lucky PC might be able to weather (*ahem*) his best attacks and defenses virtually unscathed and get to land that heroic blow that takes him down, or he somehow gets struck by his own invention's power, etc.

BTW: if you (or anyone else in this thread) move to D/FW, drop me a line and I'll let you join!

 

[ValhallaGH]

That's it entirely- its not the system, its my unfamiliarity. I have years of experience (dating back to its release in the 1980s) constructing powers in HERO (my #1 system), and while I like M&M (my 2nd favorite system), I've never gotten to actually use it, so my grasp of the mechanics is incomplete. I can design HERO PCs in my head; M&M will take some getting used to.

I completely understand. I once designed the nearly invincible master of war using around 12 scribbled numbers, 11 words, and the system notes in my head.

I missed that!

Still, I need to be familiar enough with the system to be able to aid some of the less experienced gamers in the group if they ask for help. (Your build helps me in that respect.)

Then I'm doubly glad I mentioned it.
I do understand needing to help out your players as they try to make (legal) builds, so I'll cost him up for you. Points wise: he's got Abilities 39 + Saves 12 + Skills 18 (72 ranks) + Feats 13 + Powers 71 (13+12+4+22+13+3+2+2) + Combat 30 - Drawbacks 4 = 189 power points. I've listed the power costs in the same order I wrote them up in.

Thanks! That really does clear up some of my confusion and you're right, I could probably use him as is and everyone would get chills of awe! You even nailed his psyche AND his increased size (I missed that).

I'll be honest, I cheated a little bit. I used the Ape archetype in the back of the main book as a guideline, and lifted his skills straight from Dr. Geistman (a villain in the Golden Age book). These are time-saving tricks I've learned, since skills are the fiddliest bit of character creation, and I sometimes forget the simple basic abilities of being a critter.

I am really glad that you like him.

1) In the blasts, you have things marked "Alternate"- are those different ways of using the powers or just different ways of building the power? IOW, does he have all of those capabilities within a given weapon, or just one?

All of them. Each is an alternate setting, doing slightly different effects with his lightning gun / bombs. For free, each round, he can swap between any one of the effects listed and use it as he pleases.

2) I guess I'm just not seeing it, but how did you address the "inaccuracy" issue in his Tesla weapons (if at all)?

Largely by allowing Reflex saves (which can cover the luck of having lightning arc around you). :shame:

That said, you can easily put a drawback into the powers, granting all in the area the equivalent of Evasion 1. If they make their reflex save, at all, then they are completely unharmed by the weapons. This would be a -3 point drawback, for each device so affected (Very Common, Minor); I could be argued into seeing it as a Very Common, Moderate for -4 points per device.

You could do it the way you're thinking (which is very, very complicated). It might even work the way you wanted it to, especially if you restrict him to the desired conical area (by never doing anything else, or with an appropriate Flaw or Drawback). I think my way is both simpler and more elegant, but maybe not.

Oh! One other way to do it (oddly, also stolen from the Golden Age book) is to do it as an Autofire with a Cone area. How that works, is you roll a ranged attack for each target in the cone; the success is used to determine damage as per the autofire rules. Failed attack rolls actually miss the target entirely.
The principle downside to this method is that you actually have to roll the attack for each character in the area, determining success and degree of success separately, which can slow down play. Even moreso than calling for reflex and toughness saves.
I first saw this in the Eisenmech's build.
Mechanically, it would be a Blast with the Extras: Area (Cone) [+1], Autofire [+1 to +3], and the Flaws: Range (Touch) [-1]. How many of Autofire's three levels (basic, double max damage, narrower success margin) you want to include is dependent upon how mean you want it to be (and he can always improve it as the campaign progresses).

And now that I write all that, I realize how close my last suggestion is to your idea. Hmm....

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions.

BTW: if you (or anyone else in this thread) move to D/FW, drop me a line and I'll let you join!

Thank you, sir. I am most flattered.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Largely by allowing Reflex saves (which can cover the luck of having lightning arc around you). :shame:

Isn't that part of a standard AoE? Or are you suggesting allowing a second save?

That said, you can easily put a drawback into the powers, granting all in the area the equivalent of Evasion 1. If they make their reflex save, at all, then they are completely unharmed by the weapons. This would be a -3 point drawback, for each device so affected (Very Common, Minor); I could be argued into seeing it as a Very Common, Moderate for -4 points per device.

OK, I see that.

Oh! One other way to do it (oddly, also stolen from the Golden Age book) is to do it as an Autofire with a Cone area. How that works, is you roll a ranged attack for each target in the cone; the success is used to determine damage as per the autofire rules. Failed attack rolls actually miss the target entirely.
The principle downside to this method is that you actually have to roll the attack for each character in the area, determining success and degree of success separately, which can slow down play. Even moreso than calling for reflex and toughness saves.
<snip>
And now that I write all that, I realize how close my last suggestion is to your idea. Hmm....

Potentially devastating, definitely flashy...but it may not even touch the intended targets!

I think that may just nail it, and I can do the same with the grenades!

(I may or may not have that Golden Age book you mentioned- it sounds like it may just be an invaluable resource. Unfortunately, my books are in storage while I'm doing a whole-house renovation. Gotta go digging!)

 

[ValhallaGH]

I wanted to try my hand at a real challenge, and then decided that I should leave the fun to you. So I'll just throw out some ideas on the fiddlier bits.

Spring-Heeled Jack:

His equipment should be, almost exclusively, Equipment obtained via the Equipment feat.

My problems: For Jack, the trick is how to make his pneumatic jumps a limited resource. As I understand it, modifying Leap with Unreliable (the alternate "recharge" rule) gets me close by giving him 5 jumps of the same power before he has to recharge. However, I was hoping he could be designed to have a "pool" of ...say...200 yards worth of jumping, and he has to set the distance with pressure release valves. IOW, he could do one 200 yard jump, or twenty 10 yard jumps, or any combination adding up to 200 yards of jumping.

I'd also like for him to be able to expend a "charge" from his air tanks to do a pneumatically assisted kick in combat. As I understand it, this would be some kind of Power Feat.

Hints?

The standard M&M flaws don't work very well when using very irregular progressions. At that point, creative application of flaws, designing new flaws, or use of drawbacks is the way to go; whichever is best depends upon what effects you're going after.
In this case, you want something sort of like the Fades flaw. Given how you want it to work, it really feels more like a Drawback (Common, Moderate) than like an actual flaw; largely due to how the Leaping power multiplies existing jumping ability rather than assigning abstract jumping ability.
So, enough Leaping to get the 600 ft jump distance you want (Leaping 5, for a Strength 14 guy) and a limiter on what he can do with one "charge" (Drawback - limited to 600 total feat before recharging pneumatics [-3]).

The "Kick" would be a mighty strike alternate power, with an assigned drain value. Probably Strike 4 (Mighty), and each kick would use up 20 feet (or whatever, this part is sort of arbitrary) of leaping distance.

Appearance: Definitely a bit Batman-esque, but instead of a cowl & cape, he's wearing a red-lensed metal helmet with metal horns, and aviator's jacket modified with metal studs. He wears leather pants. His black gloves have metal plates in them and have slightly clawed metal tips. His heavy boots are jacketed with a tubular metal framework that attaches to 2 compressed air cylinders on his back. IOW, he's one part Batman, one part Wolverine, and one part Commando Cody

For some reason, I see a demonic Rocketeer when I put those visuals together. :shrug:

 

[ValhallaGH]

Isn't that part of a standard AoE? Or are you suggesting allowing a second save?

Just the standard save. Hence my shame over having not done anything more; I hadn't even lowered the save DC (Limited - the affected ranks do not apply to the Reflex save DC)

Potentially devastating, definitely flashy...but it may not even touch the intended targets!

I think that may just nail it, and I can do the same with the grenades!

Yeah, it can be a good way of doing things. I am glad it seems to fit the bill.

(I may or may not have that Golden Age book you mentioned- it sounds like it may just be an invaluable resource. Unfortunately, my books are in storage while I'm doing a whole-house renovation. Gotta go digging!)

If you don't have it, I don't suggest worrying about it. Like most of their "era" books (Golden, Iron, Paragons, etc.), it's only really useful to people who either have little or no knowledge of the subgenre (history, tropes, themes, world events that helped shape the comics, etc.) or to people who are really interested in the setting that is expanded in the book (mostly Freedom City, but Paragons has a distinct one). I'm a big Freedom City fan, so I get almost everything connected to it.
Given the number of incorrectly built example characters in Golden Age, I really don't recommend using it as a guideline. There's just too many people that have bad math / power concepts printed in them; not to mention the ridiculous level of power given to WW II weapon systems (a lot more than their modern equivalents, for some bizarre reason). Today is the most mechanical use I've gotten out of it in the last year; conceptually, it's mostly great.

Of course, if you want to support Green Ronin and their fine product lines, I encourage that.