Stat Blocks Kill Me

[Water Bob]

I love 3.5 E. I really do. I think it's great how characters can grow and become customized with special abilities (Feats and Skills) to make them individualistic, even among those of their own class. The Feats and Skills systems waters down a more rigid, distinctive class system. It's possible for non-thieves to be able to Open Locks and (in the Conan RPG, which I play) for a character with a dagger in each hand, wearing no armor, to actually be a real threat.

But, man, all that individuality comes with a steep price.

The game is murder on GMs trying to set up a game.

I've got a sandbox going in my campaign. And, I wanted to set up a small outpost (keep) for the players to explore and possibly make as a home base for a while. I set out to create every NPC living in the outpost, just like the old D&D (1E) days, where there was tons of adventure and roleplaying just within the boundary of the town. I'm talking about places like Homlett, Restenford from The Secret of Bone Hill, and the Keep on the Borderlands. Every NPC was detailed, many with notes.

Then, you just let your players loose inside that box.

No two games are alike.

The problem is, with 3.0/3.5 E, it takes so damn long to create a complete NPC! It's the skill points and the Feat selection that takes so long!

Sure, I'll go with NPCs with minimal, missing, or no stats. I've done that in the past--where I just create stats on the spot when I needed them. But, for this outpost, I wanted to have a personality, drives, motivations ready for when the players interact with them. And for that, I need complete characters.

And, it just drives me up the wall how long it takes to create a 3.5 E character.

If I didn't love this Conan game so much, I'd go play D6 Star Wars or Classic Traveller where almost no prep is needed for NPCs. I can make one of those up on the spot with zero prep.

But, these 3.5 guys....sheesh!

 

[JBGarrison72]

I love 3.5 bestest, but, I have to say I agree, the skill building for NPC's seems to be a quagmire Bob.

 

[Gilladian]

I've gone through many dungeon magazines and indexed NPCs. So I can look for 3rd level rogues and pick a couple to look up and pick from, then tweak.

 

[Water Bob]

I've gone through many dungeon magazines and indexed NPCs. So I can look for 3rd level rogues and pick a couple to look up and pick from, then tweak.

I do that, too. Keep characters. Sometimes, I get an idea, come home from work, and just create a character. Sometimes, one character takes...two hours or more.

And, since I play the Conan RPG, D&D 3.5 characters don't quite cut it for me. There's a little too much difference in the game systems. That's why I can't use automated character creators--haven't found one that will do Conan characters well.

 

[Lwaxy]

I've gone to either take existing NPC books for inspiration or make up stats on the spot as they are needed. no one will be any the wiser, all I need to think about is AC, Saves, BAB, and possibly loot. Which i tend to make up on the spot a lot. Skills? If they ever need to roll them, it is usually sense motive, bluff or the like. I can make that up on the spot as well. So my NPCs develop as needed, so to say. Some never have more than a basic description and still come over as complete to the players.

 

[Water Bob]

I've gone to either take existing NPC books for inspiration or make up stats on the spot as they are needed. no one will be any the wiser, all I need to think about is AC, Saves, BAB, and possibly loot. Which i tend to make up on the spot a lot. Skills? If they ever need to roll them, it is usually sense motive, bluff or the like. I can make that up on the spot as well. So my NPCs develop as needed, so to say. Some never have more than a basic description and still come over as complete to the players.

That's the answer, isn't it. I know its the answer. Its just--when I do spend the time to develop an NPC, he comes alive. He's not generic. Yeah, I'm as creative as the next guy. I have my good days and my down days. But when I develop a character whole--all the way--their skills and Feats speak to me, and I end up with some interesting people.

For example, Tella, the stable girl. She's got so much more depth (and I know here I'm going with her as soon as the PCs meet her). This all comes from holding her hand, so to speak, and taking my time developing her like a would a PC.



TELLA THE STABLEGIRL
1st level Argossean Thief

Age: 14

STR 13 (+1) DEX 16 (+3) CON 15 (+3) INT 12 (+1) WIS 8 (-1) CHA 14 (+2)

FATE: 1

WEAPONS:

Hatchet (F): Dam 1d6, Crit x3, AP 1, Range 10’

Utility Knife (F): Dam 1d4, Crit x2, AP --, Range 10’

The hatchet she uses as a hammer, though the utility knife is her main work tool.

BAB: +0
Melee: +1
Finesse: +3
Ranged: +3

Dodge AC: 13
Parry AC: 11

Fort: +3
Ref: +5
Will: -1

HP: 14

XP: 0

Skill Points: 36 pts. (2 to Decipher Script, 4 to Hide, 4 to Move Silently, 4 to Tumble, 4 to Ride, 2 to Knowledge (Ceras Keep), 4 to Knowledge Rumors, 4 to Search, 4 to Diplomacy, 2 to Gather Information, 2 to Handle Animal)

Class Skills:

STR: Climb +1, Hide +5, Jump +1,

DEX: Balance +6, Escape Artist +3, Move Silently +7, Open Lock +3, Slight of Hand +3, Tumble +7, Use Rope +7, Ride +9

INT: Appraise +1, Craft (Herbalism) +1, Craft (mundane) +1, Decipher Script +3, Forgery +1, Knowledge (Ceras Keep) +5, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (Nobility) +1, Knowledge (Rumors) +5, Search +5

WIS: Listen -1, Profession (Sailor) +3, Sense Motive -1, Spot -1

CHA: Bluff +2, Diplomacy +6, Gather Information +8, Intimidate +2, Perform +2, Handle Animal +6

Background Skills/Racial Skills: Gather Information, Knowledge (Ceras Keep), Profession (Sailor), Balance, Use Rope.

Hyborian Adaptability: Handle Animal, Ride

Weapon Familiarity: Not Yet Learned.

Languages (6 total): Argossean, Shemite

First Level Feat: Animal Affinity

Sneak Attack Style: Knife

Abilities: Trap Disarming




Roleplaying Notes: Tella is Argossean friendly and can be a font of information. She’s a gossip. Loose lips. She’s 14 years old, is Rafe the Smith’s daughter, and runs the stable for the family.

She wears her hair cropped short, like a boy, in a bowl cut. She is a bit of a tomboy, though she's also a bit boy-crazy (though there are no boys to be crazy about). She wears a cotton tunic tucked into wool over-alls with straps. She goes barefoot a lot, but she also has a pair or sandals. She carries a large pouch, with the strap across her torso. Her axe is concealed in a custom hoop-holder on the under-side of her pouch. Strangers may not know it is there. Her utility knife, though, she carries on her hip in a leather scabbard tied around her waist with a piece of rope.

Tella is insatiably curious and is adept at eavesdropping. Her favorite spot is the hayloft. She may poke through the PC’s belongings, given the chance. Any secrets she finds may spread to unfriendly ears.

She charges ½ sp for a stall and manger hay, or 1 sp for a stall, rub down, and oats.

Equipment such as saddles, harness, and tackle can be entrusted to the stable girl. Otherwise, it can be stored in the warehouse.





THE INSIDE SCOOP ON TELLA

Tella, the young stablegirl. She's just 14 (which is an adult in the Hyborian Age). She stands about 5'4", blousey tunic tucked into homespun overalls. Barefoot. A large, wide-strapped pouch bisects her torso. When the PCs first see her, she'll be sitting, cross-legged right in the center of the entrance to the open stable. Tella will be starring back at them, unblinking, fixated on newcomers.


There's a very nice dock knife in a leather scabbard tied to her waist with a bit of rope. The PCs probably won't notice the hand axe that has its own hoop on the back panel of the pouch, unless Tella takes it out. That, and the dock knife, are her two main working tools. She'll use one end of the axe like a hammer.


She's got sandy blonde hair, but it's not hard to see large area on the back right part of her head where the skin is scarred and the hair won't grow. You can't miss the spot, if you stand behind her. It's about the size of a fist. What happened to her? Did she get kicked in the head by a horse? Or...is that a burn wound?


Tella is friendly, almost to a fault. She's still a happy kid, though her build make her look more like a boy. She's very flat chested, small and skinny. She loves animals--all kinds. It's not unusual to find her squatting and carrying on a one-sided (is it?) conversation with a new horse or stray dog.


She's quick, too. Quite intelligent. She can actually read! But, sometimes, what she says is a bit disconcerting. She might start talking about how the cattle have crab legs and walk sideways in the noon-day sun. Or, when she's telling you about her prices, she might say, "It's a hammer a day to for a rub down and oat--half that for just barn hay, except on days when it rains blood." And, if you get to know her, what she says, in a gleeful high-pitched voice, can turn quite dark, like when she speaks of the soldiers who held her down and felt her on the inside with those long crotch fingers they have.

 

[cimbrog]

I felt the same way until I realized that the only person for whom the internal consistency of NPC and monster stat blocks mattered was me, the GM. (Thanks, 4e!) Now I just keep two skill values for most incidental NPCs, Focus and Side. Focus skills equal the NPCs level plus five to seven, depending on how competent they are. It covers all the skill checks a they should theoretically be good at (Diplomacy for a noble, Craft-Weapons for weaponsmith). Side skills equal half the NPC's level plus three to five. It covers stuff the NPC is okay at (Craft - armor for a weaponsmith, Ride for a noble).

It might make more sense to more fully stat out a character that is frequently encountered but if you just need Farmer #32 in Restenford then just a little shorthand should do the trick.

 

[Celebrim]

1) Only create as much as you need.
2) Don't sweat +/-1 errors unless you are trying to publish. Being exact doesn't gain you much and makes a difference only in a small percentage of occasions.
3) Build your library of stat blocks up. You've got a word processor. Everything is reusable.
4) The monster manual has utility. Just flip open to the right page.
5) Use compact stat blocks.

Your notes on Tella are really good. But unless Tella is going to be involved in play for 20 or 30 hours, the crunch in them is pointless.

The really valuable part of the notes on Tella is the description and backstory you've given her. In the very unlikely event you need to know her Intimidate skill, her ranks in Animal Handling, or her Reflex save, you can generally guess it on the spot based on your game demographics and what you feel is right about Tella. Then and only then do you need to document your choices.

Or in short, even if NPCs use the same rules as PCs (they probably should!) they aren't a PC. Don't lavish the same effort on every NPC that you would in creating a PCs. Instead, put the focus of the effort into what matters - in this case, making her come alive in your mind. Most of that value is in recording your thoughts about her, not working out a stat block.

Honestly in her case, I'd probably have written something like Tella (elite stablehand, Thief1), then written a paragraph about her personality (possibly with a few inline notes like 'WIS 8'), and been done.

 

[Water Bob]

Honestly in her case, I'd probably have written something like Tella (elite stablehand, Thief1), then written a paragraph about her personality (possibly with a few inline notes like 'WIS 8'), and been done.

All good points.

But, the part you're missing is...I didn't come up with the stuff about her personality and background until after I created her stat block. It was the stats, feats, skills that spoke to me and told me who this character was. As I deliberated about where to put skill points and what feats to chose for her, I thought about why she would have these particular skills and feats--and that led me to her background write-up.

I didn't have the background write up first. It came after the process of statting the character told me who the character was.

That's my problem.

 

[Lwaxy]

That's the answer, isn't it. I know its the answer. Its just--when I do spend the time to develop an NPC, he comes alive. He's not generic. Yeah, I'm as creative as the next guy. I have my good days and my down days. But when I develop a character whole--all the way--their skills and Feats speak to me, and I end up with some interesting people.

For example, Tella, the stable girl. She's got so much more depth (and I know here I'm going with her as soon as the PCs meet her). This all comes from holding her hand, so to speak, and taking my time developing her like a would a PC.

But you can do that without extensive notes, in fact you will have to make up NPCs on the spot a lot anyway.

Example from Friday night, player who is playing the inkeeper's daughter in a village setting asked if there was any strong lad her age she could take with her on an overnight watch, so she would not have to dare do it alone. So I immediately thought of a guy a bit older than her, Martin, tall, bit overweight, very strong and patient and reliable to a fault. I saw his dark blonde hair, his freckles, the mole on his chin and his grey-blue eyes. His earnest smile, always friendly to everyone. People think he is a bit on the dumb side because he is so strong and a bit slow, but he just prefers to think about stuff a lot. He could be a wizard if he would want to. But he's a wheelwright's apprentice in the next village over, and loves doing physical work.

While he stayed with her that night to watch why a donkey of the inn behaved super weird (they were suspecting a werechicken ) they fell asleep and the PC's dad caught them in the morning. He thought the wrong thing, the boy could not escape but when the dad saw him I had this moment where it made click and suddenly, the father started laughing, no longer worried about Martin. Because Martin, I now know, is gay, and the dad had seen him with his long time boyfriend in his workplace a few months earlier. The PC does not know, and maybe will never even find out.

His stats? Well, I know his INT is 18, his STR is 18, his CHA is 17. his DEX is 11 and his CON is 15. Better stats than most of the PCs. He's a wheelwright expert 2, has as much knowledge about nature and farming as anyone growing up around here (profession farming 8, knowledge nature 3) and basic weapon training as everyone strong enough gets in these parts (fighter 1)

Anything else will come to me once it is relevant. I would not even need the existing stats, because I do not need to roll dice for him. If he happens to come across a trail with a PC who can't track, for example, I can judge well enough if he can know the trail of a wild herd from that of the cattle thieves. I judge by what real people might know and see, and then roll only a d20 and add likely extras.

The village lives in my head, and I write the relevant information down for my players as it comes up. I made like 10% of the village population into handouts, which means about 50 people, but many only have one sentence, and from that I can expand as needed. That one sentence is enough for the players to get an idea, and for me to bring it all back to mind - the halfling gal tending the poultry for her clan, who has an uncle who now is a ghoul and another who is now a tree after angering a visiting wizard (who in turn is friend to one of the PCs), the stable boy worried about the crazy donkey, the owner of the chicken who thinks it is a cat, scaring the crap out of the old cat one of the PCs has etc. At least in my head, it is all simple, much as if I would really open a window into a real village existing in another universe. I can see the people running around and interacting. The NPCs are dynamic, they develop along with the PCs and they are basically my chars to play, I'm setting a stage for the players which is growing almost on its own.

If my village would live mostly on paper I'd be busy looking it up all the time, slowing the game down, too. But that is probably just because of my bad eyes.