D&D 5E Stealth & that big Rock!

[Prism]

I don't do that. When I shoot from behind an obstacle I'm very close to, I still see 100% of my target, so no cover applies.

Fair enough, however its very open to interpretation. The cover AC bonus is not about being able to see something but rather that a physical obstacle is in the way. When a creature (ally or enemy) is between you and your target we always rule they have half cover and get +2 AC regardless of distances between either. I apply the same logic when the cover is an obstacle that you are almost completely behind. Being able to see your target does not mean your arms/body/weapon are fully out of cover. There is no rule that says cover does not apply when you are close to it, so I apply a reasonable (I think) ruling and say that a flat +2 AC applies if you try a difficult shot while the rogue is trying to maintain stealth by being behind three quarters cover. Sometimes I might apply the full +5 AC. Of course the advantage to attack mostly offsets the penalty.

 

[KahlessNestor]

The half cover for the creature is reasonable, but not for being behind the wall. The wall isn't going to be between you and your weapon. This is how cover works in reality. You set up behind the wall that gives you a defensive bonus and provides a clear view of fire.

 

[Prism]

The 5e rules tell us that when an obstacle is between attacker and defender then a cover bonus is applied. There is no concept of behind close or far from the obstacle. There is no difference between ranged and melee attacks. Earlier additions gave us some realistic exceptions to this such as rules for being close to the cover and the ability to effectively snipe around corners. 5e doesn't allow this but we are supposed to apply some common sense. So...

Sure using a low wall or corner as a defensive position to gain half cover, a +2 AC bonus and still shoot effectively. However I don't allow hiding at the same time as I don't believe that this situation classes as not being seen clearly when about half the body is visible. So no advantage to attack. I basically don't allow hiding with half cover as its too easy to do and doesn't fall into the category of not being able to see clearly. I would allow it upon exception with some clever movement or distraction.

If you want to hide, maintain at least three quarters cover, get a +5 bonus to AC and gain advantage to attack then I make that more difficult to shoot from by ruling that the cover also gets in the way of the attacker to some degree. Popping your head up while hiding is not enough to throw a javelin or dagger unhindered. The only weapon I can think of that might be usable in such a fashion would be a hand crossbow but I don't create different rules for different weapons so I stick to a general penalty in the form of a cover bonus (usually +2) to the defender.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

The 5e cover rules want the DM to decide himself how much cover is giving and because of this are very vague. They basically just say "Depending on how much % of the target is covered, you gain this or that much AC, here are some examples".

And if you ask me when you decide whether an obstacle is between attacker and the target, you always have to base that on the position of the eyes/weapon of the attacker and not the body of the attacker. So it can very well be that Person A is covered by a wall when being attacked from Person B, but Person B is not covered when being attacked from Person A.

The rules aren't this specific, they want the DM to decide according to the situation with the obvious goal being that you don't have to think about many rules to decide and allowing players to use uncommon strategies and gain something from that.

 

[Hriston]

• Hide is an Action. When you try to Hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. If you are successful, you are Unseen.

You have any benefits of being unseen whether you ar hidden or not. Hiding does not make you unseen. In fact, not being seen clearly is a precondition for hiding. There's no indication in the rules that hiding successfully makes you completely unseen if that wasn't already the case. The main benefit of hiding is that the creatures you are hidden from don't know where you are. Hiding disguises your location.

• Passive Perception is the DC your Stealth roll must succeed against.

Yeah, since it's a contest, a tie results in a continuation of the status quo, which in this case means that your location continues to be unknown.

• Unseen – Any attack whereby the attacker is Unseen has advantage on attack rolls (any creature that is effectively invisible or successfully taken the Hade action is Unseen).

I like the term "effectively invisible" and would only say that you must be effectively invisible (i.e. not seen clearly) to take the Hide action.

• Only the First attack roll on a creature’s turn after they have become Unseen has Advantage on attack rolls.

No. Any attack rolls a creature makes on a target it can see while it is unseen by that target have advantage. As soon as you are seen, you lose this benefit.

• Light Obscurement (dim light, shadows, patchy fog, moderate fiolage): Imposes disadvantage on Perception checks.

Again, only those that rely on sight. Perception versus Stealth does not rely on sight.

 

[KahlessNestor]

I still think sight is the main part of it, unless you have a scent ability. Otherwise the restiction is rather meaningless.

 

[Hriston]

And if you ask me when you decide whether an obstacle is between attacker and the target, you always have to base that on the position of the eyes/weapon of the attacker and not the body of the attacker. So it can very well be that Person A is covered by a wall when being attacked from Person B, but Person B is not covered when being attacked from Person A.

This should only be true for weapons that rely on forming a "sight picture" involving the weapon, the target, and the attacker's hands, to aim the attack, such as bows and blowguns. Thrown weapons, on the other hand, rely on eye-hand coordination which happens inside the attacker's brain and involves the entire body.

 

[Hriston]

I still think sight is the main part of it, unless you have a scent ability. Otherwise the restiction is rather meaningless.

It's meaningful when looking for signs of traps, secret doors, and noticing details that might get passed over, but if a creature is hidden, it's already been established that they are unseen. Making a successful Perception check doesn't change that.

Edit: Also, you seem to be forgetting about hearing, which I would say, in Perception vs. Stealth, is the main part of it.

 

[Amatiel]

• Light Obscurement (dim light, shadows, patchy fog, moderate fiolage): Imposes disadvantage on Perception checks.

Hriston -(Again, only those that rely on sight. Perception versus Stealth does not rely on sight.)

Prception vs. Stealth not rely on sight? How does not being able to see clearly the hiding creature not imposes a disadvantage on perception checks from light obscurement ? I mean, given that, you could close your eyes and still roll perception checks? lol

 

[Ovinomancer]

• Light Obscurement (dim light, shadows, patchy fog, moderate fiolage): Imposes disadvantage on Perception checks.

Hriston -(Again, only those that rely on sight. Perception versus Stealth does not rely on sight.)

Prception vs. Stealth not rely on sight? How does not being able to see clearly the hiding creature not imposes a disadvantage on perception checks from light obscurement ? I mean, given that, you could close your eyes and still roll perception checks? lol

Yes, you can. And if you have keen hearing, you get advantage on perception checks involving hearing. If you have keen scent, you get advantage on perception checks involving smelling things.

Perception covers all of the senses. Stealth does as well. The starting position is sight, because we're primary sight animals, but you can make a perception check on any or all of the senses. Stealth attempts to hide from all senses as well.