Stealth - the low down UPDATED!

[toxicspirit]

Works for me.

Edit: Linky

 

[bardolph]

Ex. The party is camping in a dungeon room and the rogue is walking across the center of the room when a band of orcs burst in, surprising the party. The rogue isn't attacked in the surprise round, but he was still clearly visible and "noticed". On his first action, he takes a normal move towards some crates and THEN succeeds on a hide check. The orcs cannot see the rogue, and cannot directly target him, but since they saw him originally and he wasn't hidden as he moved, they know that he's "behind the crates", and can move to get LoS or perhaps target the crates with a Area attack.

Let's reverse this. The PCs burst in on the Orcs, and an Orc Lurker succeeds on a stealth check on his turn. As a DM, do you tell the players where he went?

 

[James McMurray]

Here ya go

 

[James McMurray]

Let's reverse this. The PCs burst in on the Orcs, and an Orc Lurker succeeds on a stealth check on his turn. As a DM, do you tell the players where he went?

Only if he was in line of sight at some point. And even then they'll know where he went, but not where he uis.

 

[Klaus]

Can you provide a link to this FAQ?

I find it hard to believe that WotC's official stance is that you have to beat the Stealth check BY TEN POINTS in order to target a hidden creature.

The initial check is Stealth vs. Perception, higher wins.

After the creature is hidden, it has to make a new Stealth check at the end of its turn, and also after every opportunity or immediate action, opposed by opponents' Perception checks.

 

[Klaus]

Can you provide a link to this FAQ?

I find it hard to believe that WotC's official stance is that you have to beat the Stealth check BY TEN POINTS in order to target a hidden creature.

The initial check is Stealth vs. Perception, higher wins.

After the creature is hidden, it has to make a new Stealth check at the end of its turn, and also after every opportunity or immediate action, opposed by opponents' Perception checks.

 

[MarkB]

Can you provide a link to this FAQ?

I find it hard to believe that WotC's official stance is that you have to beat the Stealth check BY TEN POINTS in order to target a hidden creature.

I don't think that's what they're saying at all.

If you make a Perception check that beats the hidden creature's Stealth check, then you've detected him and he's no longer hidden - so the stuff about invisible creatures and beating Stealth by 10 is irrelevant.

But if you don't beat his Stealth check, you then need to apply the rest of the rules from the TARGETING WHAT YOU CAN'T SEE sidebar - the stuff under Pick a Square and Attack and Close or Area Attacks. Basically, you pick the square you think he's in and if you're right, your ranged attack takes a -5 penalty, but if you hit him with an area-effect then your attacks take no penalty.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

wow

This thread is really depressing. Stealth was one of the most difficult things to adjudicate in 3E because the rules were not precise.

It sounds like it's the same way in 4E.

I had really hoped that 4E would fix things in this area, given that stealth is pretty much going to be attempted in every single game, given that it's a key tactic of the rogue.

Ken

 

[James McMurray]

This thread is really depressing. Stealth was one of the most difficult things to adjudicate in 3E because the rules were not precise.

The rules were plenty precise as long as you didn't mind making the "leap" from "unseen" to "can't be seen." The vast majority of arguments were centered around that definition because some people think it's too powerful and reach for other interpretations rather than just saying "I'll house rule it."

 

[ki11erDM]

The FAQ has just been updated, and people using stealth officially cannot be seen, and use the rules for targeting things you can't see.

16. What are the benefits of being hidden?

There are several benefits of being hidden from an enemy - you have combat advantage against them and they will have a more difficult time targeting you. Page 281 of the Player's Handbook explains the rules for targeting creatures you cannot see.

What do you mean they can't be seen? It does not say that at all. It says you have combat advantage and you are more difficult to target. And because you are difficult to target you use the rules for targeting creatures you cannot see.

If you could not be seen the FAQ would say: you have combat advantage against them and they cannot see you.