Stealth - the low down UPDATED!

[Syrsuro]

However, one can infer that the minor action Perception check can be used to spot a "normally" hidden creature.

The inference (read: Houserule, since afaik its not covered clearly in the RAW) I make is that a character can make a minor action Perception check to look at a specific location (is there someone hiding there ), versus a standard action perception check to look all around (is there someone hiding in this room ).

But at present I consider that to be a houserule on my part.

Carl

 

[Starfox]

I found the tactics notes on the Cameleon Yuan-Ti Malison power very useful for determining Stealth issue - and its very generous indeed.

Chameleon Defense
The yuan-ti malison sharp-eye has concealment against attacks
that originate more than 3 squares away.

Its chameleon defense allows it to make Stealth checks to remain hidden while shooting.

Read together, these two indicates that anyone who shoots from concealment (and by extension, from cover) can make Stealth rolls to remain hidden. The Tactics section contains no rules; in this case it contains a ruling. Apply this ruling to PCs, and Stealth becomes very easy to use.

This doesn't really contradict how I read the debate here, but it might add some light. It DOES add some light to the "does an ally giving cover enable Stealth" debate. The Malison has Stealth against attacks only, and this enables Stealth. This is much the same as hiding behind an ally.

 

[clearstream]

Concerning #1. Specific Beats General (p.11 of the PHB) would indicate that a check granted by a power is appropriate.

For other usage, A stealth check should be appropriate whenever you have cover or concealment. ...There may be special circumstances (e.g. You can't jump over the pit because you're crawling through an 24" high crawlspace on your belly.) that prohibit making a check, but that should be the exception rather than the rule.

The way you have written #1, you're making it sounds like the game intends the Rogue to only be able to use Stealth by making a beneDMiction.

RAW and CSR make it clear that DMs tell players when a given situation is appropriate, including for Stealth. For the reasons you point out, I advise that using a power that grants a check should qualify for that.

With regard to cover and concealment, your pit example is a good one. Mostly you can see a jump check being reasonable, but you can never rule out something situational interfering with that. Imagine a power reading 'Effect: The target cannot use stealth (save ends)' for instance.

It makes the entire post come off more like, "I don't like stealth and here's how to nerf it." While the title seems to indicate the intent of, "This is clarifying stealth."

I've followed a forensic process that has deduced how stealth mechanically operates, resolving contradictions as well as possible. I've endeavoured to be neutral on that.

Do I like Stealth. Yes. Is the present system unwieldy and imba? Yes. Am I stealth-nerfing it in this thread? No.

-vk