Stealth - the low down

[clearstream]

Based on best available evidence (WotC_Mearls, CSR, RAW) here's how you can run Stealth.

1. Stealth does not upgrade Cover to Superior Cover, or Concealment to Total Concealment. Stealth does not connect with Targeting What You Can't See.

Ruling supported by CSR

2. If you have Cover or Concealment from any source you can use Stealth provided your DM deems the given situation appropriate. Your DM will tell you if you can make a check. A power such as Fleeting Ghost or a skill such as Bluff that explicitly grants you a Stealth check should nearly always qualify as 'appropriate'.

Ruling supported by CSR.

3. To gain CA on an attack using Stealth, you have to be already hidden by using some other action before making that attack. When you attack from hiding, your hidden condition does not end until after completing the entirety of that attack action.

Ruling supported by WotC_Mearls.

4. Make Stealth checks against passive Perception. Alert enemies can use minor actions to make further Perception checks, but do not lose the benefit of their passive result by doing so. You have to beat the better of their active roll or their passive Perception.

Ruling supported by CSR.

5. Once any enemy notices you, either by beating your Stealth with their Perception, or by reaching a viewpoint that has no lines of sight blocked by obstacles or allies (of yours) and is not obscured, that enemy can share information. If they do, you are no longer hidden against anyone capable of understanding that information. Example: Wolves hunting in a pack share information about hidden prey. Example: If one of four hobgoblins spots a hidden PC, that guy can tell his allies where the PC is hiding.

Ruling supported by WotC_Mearls and CSR.

6. In an encounter, it uses a minor action to make an active Perception check when searching for a hidden enemy.

Ruling supported by WotC_Mearls.


Player: I walk quietly into the candle-lit room. Anyone there got better than normal vision?
DM: Nope.
Player: Alright. I try for a Stealth check.
DM: There are four guys in this room. They all saw you come in the door. You do have Concealment, but I'm disallowing the check.


Player: I Fleeting Ghost into the candle-lit room. Anyone there got better than normal vision?
DM: Nope.
Player: Alright. I try for a Stealth check.
DM: There are four guys in this room, but since you used a Rogue power that explicitly grants a Stealth check, I'm going to allow it.


Player: I charge into the candle-lit room and attack guy one. They're surprised right?
DM: Yup. You get CA.
First Non-Surprise Round
Player: Now I want to move 3-squares to that corner behind them using Ethereal Stride. That activates Shadow Walk, right? Can I try for a Stealth check?
DM: There are four alert guys in this room, but you've teleported directly behind them. They're confused. Go-ahead and make that check. You're at -5 for moving more than 2-squares this turn. They'll use their passive Perception now, and then make active checks on their turns.

Remember, there are 13 ways other than hiding or concealment to get CA, and a bunch of powers that explicitly provide it. Challenge your Rogues to be cunning. They'll love you for it.

-vk

 

[Oompa]

Nice post

 

[Contents May Vary]

Nice!

So, can you hide in a square with cover without moving? If you can, what kind of action is it?

If you attack an enemy from a square with cover, can you re-hide during your turn without moving?

 

[Badapple]

Is it possible to use a minor action to stealth?

 

[clearstream]

So, can you hide in a square with cover without moving? If you can, what kind of action is it?

If you attack an enemy from a square with cover, can you re-hide during your turn without moving?

If your DM tells you it is appropriate, you can re-hide in a square without moving, even after attacking from that square. Equally, your DM would be within RAW to disallow it and challenge you to do something cunning.

All official sources agree.

You cannot do that with a free action, but you can do that with a minor action that you describe appropriately, e.g. 'I hunker down.' Literally Minor actions are enabling actions. Simple actions that usually lead to more exciting actions. Like an attack with CA.

Based on consensus of opinion, but not yet confirmed by any official source.

The above also answers the question about using a minor action for Stealth. Yes, you can do so.

-vk

 

[ogre]

Very nice!
I like the emphasis on thematic elements rather than mechanical rules. A guideline on when it is appropriate to stealth, with the DM deciding if the current enviroment allows it. I like it.
Currently, I'm in the camp of needing total cover to restealth after an attack, or in other words, needing to go out of sight. But I think this opens it up a little more and encourages rogue ingenuity a little more, without the need of flow charts and graphs.
The only thing I don't want in my game is numerous mandatory perception checks every round of combat. Following your logic presented here seems like a decent compromise from my harer take on it.

 

[James McMurray]

Thanks!

Are there links to the sources for the rulings? I'm liking what I see, but it's always handy to have a pointer to the explanations.

 

[Klaumbaz]

I disagree with mearle's that the attack itself can't be stealthy. Ask anyone in prison who got shiv'd a they walked down the hallway. (my brother works in a prison, it's more common than you think). He even stated that the stealth breaks AFTER the attaack has ended.

but i like the rest of what your saying.

 

[toxicspirit]

I disagree with mearle's that the attack itself can't be stealthy.

Yeah. That's the only part of his 'clarification' that I had a problem with as well.

 

[DM_Blake]

Good post.

My only quibble is that allowing active perception rolls should be more flexible than requiring a foe to use a minor action in their round.

One, that burns an action. Clever groups will use this as a tactic. "Oh, look, we're fighting dwarves. They can use a minor action to take a second wind. Let's screw them up by making them use their minor actions to find our rogue so they can't use them for second winds."

Two, it's very easy for a rogue to get a high enough Stealth skill that he can always beat the passive perceptions of everything he ever fights.
Rogue: Oh, look, it's a room full of kobolds. I use Stealth and rolled a 3.
DM: You hid from all 15 kobolds. None of them can hope to see you.
Rogue: Yeah, I know. Funny how none of them ever gets lucky. Ever. I'm just too good! I roxxorz!

Seems to me that some enemies, sometimes, value their lives enough that they will be extra alert, even when it's not their turn. If they already know their foe is nearby (they've seen him, heard him, whatever) and they have any reason to think he is sneaking around, then it seems to me they are too alert to rely on only passive perception.

The players won't like it at all when a stealthy assassin keeps whacking them from stealth because he consistently rolls higher than their passive perception. I can see the complaints now. "What?! I get NO chance to see this guy? I know he's nearby, I'm actively searching for him, but when it's his round I get no chance to roll to try to beat his stealth? None?!"

This sounds to me like it has some room for judgment calls and houseruling.