Stop putting out ?@$%#^&@ CRAP!!!!!!

[Vraille Darkfang]

Ok, I'm really, really ticked off now.

I decided to begin writing reviews for the d20 reviews section. To be fair, I'm going to rant here, get a good night's sleep then write my review tomorrow after I calm done.

For my first review? Why Primeval Groves by the Wanderer's Guild and Goodman Games. I liked the previous 2 volumes so much (Monsters of the Endless Dark & Boundless Blue) I plopped down my 25 bucks sight unseen. Now I'm actually reading it. I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a sinlge d20 product unread again.

Crap. Useless. I don't know what editon they used by it wasn't 3.5 (or 3.0). Has every d20 publisher fired their editors? Almost every monster has SERIOUS flaws in its d20 write up. Then there's the editing. Or lack thereof.

How bad?

Monster 1: Briar Golem

Incorrect Full Attack. Listed at 2 slams +15; should be 2 slams +10 (-1 size, +6 BAB, +5 Str).

Incorrect Will Save. Listed at +6; Should be +1 (+2 Base, -1 Wis).

Monster 2. Craspederbii

Incorrect hp total. Listed as 2d8+4 (15). Average is 13, not 15.

Incorrect BAB/Grapple. Listed at +2/-5. Should be +1/+4 (+1 BAB, +3 Str).

Incorrect Attack & Full Attack. Listed at +5. Should be +4 (due to incorrect BAB).

Incorrect Ref & Will saves. Listed at +1 & -3. Should be +0 (+0 Base, +0 Dex) & -5 (+0, -5 Wis).

Incorrect Skills. It has none listed, but has 5 skill points (2 base -4 Int, minimum of 1/lvl, so 1x4 at 1st HD +1 for 2nd HD.

Monster 3. Dequalm.

Incorrect BAB/Grapple. Listed at +3/-2. Should be +2/-3 (-4 size, +2 BAB, -1 Str).

Incorrect Damage Total. Listed at 1d4. Should be 1d4-1 (Str mod of -1).

Incorrect Will Save. Listed at +6. Should be +4 (+1 Base, +1 Wis, +2 Iron Will).

I'll stop there. 3 up, 3 down. Not a correct one. Most of the others are just as bad, if not worse.

I won't even mention the editing. Lots of editing errors litter this book. I can look those over however, as they don't interfere with my ability to use the book in a D&D game.

I'll post a lot more errors when I actually write my review. At present I'm so mad, both at Goodman games for producing such a poorly designed piece & myuself for breaking my own rule of "read before I buy'. If I wrote the review right now I'd just bash it & give it a score of 0. But its not THAT horrible. It has quite a bit to enjoy, it is better than a 0. I'll let myself cool down before I write the review.

Swears to never buy another RPG product sight unseen.
Has MM III pre-ordered at my FLGS.
Oh well, as of TOMORROW, I'll never buy another RPG product sight unseen.

 

[Crothian]

Good thing to. Its obvious that if one product by Goodman Games has these errors that Green Ronin's next books will also be bad. And don't get me started on what these means for the Whitewolf books.

We've all got burned with buying bad books. They are out there and all companies have them even Green Ronin and White Wolf. But they also all have some pretty good books, and from my experience the good outnumber the bad. Don't make fast judgments on the whole RPG industry becasue of one book. But at the same time its always a good idea to at least flip through the book, read on line reviews, read through discussion threads on forums, read previews, etc.

 

[Felon]

Went to DragonCon this year. There was a dealer hawking 5 D20 books for $20. Had hundreds and hundreds of books filling several shelves surrounding his table. Crowds of people walked up, poured through, and walked away empty-handed. I was one of those people. Although I was pleased to see the sheer number of Fast Forward products on those shelves, it was overall a saddening experience.

 

[Crothian]

Wow, I'd have picked some up. For 4 bucks most books are worth it....even the Fast Forward books have some good ideas in them, easily 4 bucks worth.....

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

We've all got burned with buying bad books. They are out there and all companies have them even Green Ronin and White Wolf. But they also all have some pretty good books, and from my experience the good outnumber the bad. Don't make fast judgments on the whole RPG industry becasue of one book. But at the same time its always a good idea to at least flip through the book, read on line reviews, read through discussion threads on forums, read previews, etc.

Which is essentially what I'm saying. I keep telling myself I'll never buy a product without reading it first. And I do. For a while. Then I go ahead & buy something because I KNOW it will be good (and to be honest I'm right 70% of the time). Then I find out it's bad, sometimes not hideously so, but occasionally (like Mongoose's Ultimate Monsters I &, now Primeval Groves) so full of errors I basically have to re-write the book to use it in my game.

I don't know why publishers put out stuff with so many errors (actually I DO understand, just don't like it).

But, your advice is very good. So I'll repeat it. Before you buy, do your research. There's a lot of products out there & most people don't have enough money to buy it all good, bad, and excellent. If I had done that I'd have several hundred dollars to play around with.

Thanks,

 

[Felon]

Wow, I'd have picked some up. For 4 bucks most books are worth it....even the Fast Forward books have some good ideas in them, easily 4 bucks worth.....

That's what I thought going in too (although upon reflection, it may have been 3 books, not 4). Kind of like the appeal an all-you-can eat Chinese buffet can have--until you step up with your plate to discover the horrible mediocrity before you.

As for Fast Forward, I don't so much resent their own brand of horrible mediocrity, but rather the fact that every freakin' gaming retailer carries them. Never heard of Monsternomicon or Tome of Horrors or Magic in a Medieval Society, but they've got every FF book that was ever published. We have retailers on this board, right? Can anyone explain that? Is the secret the bright red covers, or the proponderence of alliteratively-titled products? Seriously. Tell me.

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

Hi-

I thought FF Dungeon World was pretty good, lots of crunchy bits to prirate for my FR campaign.


Scott

 

[Piratecat]

I love Goodman Games, but I have some pretty serious problems with their editing on certain products. They've definitely impressed me more often than they've disappointed me, thank goodness... but I won't be buying Primeval Groves.

 

[haiiro]

They've definitely impressed me more often than they've disappointed me, thank goodness... but I won't be buying Primeval Groves.

DragonMech, on the other hand, kicks major booty.

 

[Teflon Billy]

DragonMech, on the other hand, kicks major booty.

Waayyyy