Str Pal vs Chr Pal

[mneme]

4e STR paladins have improved, plus they have one of best Paragon Paths, ie Champion of Order. But as Mengu said, there are ways of making a CHR paladin into a pseudo-striker -- my paladin uses a kludge-y combination of two Domain Feats (Power of the Sun, Power of Arcane) and the White Lotus Riposte chain.

That doesn't work any more, no?

No White Lotus Master Riposte against marked enemies.

WLR still works, though, I guess.

 

[Zaran]

Pay your feat tax and take Mighty Challenge.

Wait, it's a Paladin. So instead, pay your feat tithe.

- - -

If you want an excellent Str-based Paladin, try a Half-Orc with both Mighty Challenge and Blessed Strength. Put an 8 in your Charisma and be happy.

Cheers, -- N

That really shouldn't be a feat since it fixes a broken feature.

 

[Aegeri]

Naw, this is from Divine Power.

He may be thinking of blessed strength, the half-orc feat that makes a pure strength paladin entirely viable.

 

[Felon]

Heh. I remember building a half-orc hybrid paladin/barbarian. My ultimate conclusion?

"Why the heck am I bothering with the barbarian?"

Defender schmender. The muscle-pally hits just as hard. The only thing the barb brought to the table was Howling Strike.

 

[Ahrimon]

Strength paladins do more striking. Charisma paladins do more defending. That's really just the way it generally is. You can make corner cases for a radiant vulnerability exploiting charisma paladin that does more striking, or half-orc strength based paladin that does more defending, but those would not be the norm.

I suppose if I look at it that way it works. But I look at it as the str paladins do more striking and the charisma paladins do more leading. But they should both be able to be defenders because, well, that's what a paladin is. Even the GS wielding fighter has their full defender ability.

Naw, this is from Divine Power.

The feat to add your Str to DC is from Divine Power. The dragon one is half-orc only and allows them to replace charisma with strength for both DC and DS.

Think of CHR as representing a god's grace (this would explain why the class once required a high CHR). Now think of beating the snot out of ogre not with the strength of your own arm, but with god's grace.

Fitting for a paladin, no?

Not so much for me. I can see his holy power enhancing his attack. But if the paladin can barely swing their sword in the first place it just doesn't work for me. I know it works for a lot of other people. And I can put my dislike aside to enjoy a good game with someone who wants to play that character. But I can't bring myself to make one. Yet. To me it's almost like a world full of Elrics running arround enhancing themselves with one form of magic or another.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

All I can say is, from my extremely limited experience with paladins, Wrath of the Gods (post-errata, even) is just awesome... and works much better with Charisma-based paladins.

But from what I've seen of powers in general, they're about even. I think the Strength-based powers hit just a little harder though.

 

[DoctorNick]

Not so much for me. I can see his holy power enhancing his attack. But if the paladin can barely swing their sword in the first place it just doesn't work for me.

You may have heard this before but I'm going to say this because it just might blow your mind. In real life, strength has very little to do with being able to hit people with your sword.

That has more to do with training than anything else. I would say that using your highest ability as a "to hit" (wether it be Str or Cha) is very much in the spirit of your intensive weapons training as a Paladin.

It may not be a strict simulation of reality but neither is using strength. If you just want to use strength because D&D has always used strength for melee attacks then I don't think I can help you much.

 

[Nifft]

That really shouldn't be a feat since it fixes a broken feature.

I wish I lived in "Should".

Heh. I remember building a half-orc hybrid paladin/barbarian. My ultimate conclusion?

"Why the heck am I bothering with the barbarian?"

Defender schmender. The muscle-pally hits just as hard. The only thing the barb brought to the table was Howling Strike.

If you focus on Str+Wis and take the right Domain feat, you can actually get better average damage from Holy Strike.

The Barbarian can bring the pain via Rampage, and with his excellent Daily & Encounter powers. Barbarians are also more mobile (with much better Charge support).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Felon]

You may have heard this before but I'm going to say this because it just might blow your mind. In real life, strength has very little to do with being able to hit people with your sword.

That has more to do with training than anything else. I would say that using your highest ability as a "to hit" (wether it be Str or Cha) is very much in the spirit of your intensive weapons training as a Paladin.

It may not be a strict simulation of reality but neither is using strength. If you just want to use strength because D&D has always used strength for melee attacks then I don't think I can help you much.

I think the point here is that if you're a Cha-based paladin, Strength simply does little to nothing for you. It can be an 8 or 18, but once the pally's decided to go with Cha powers, it just doesn't do much of anything. So it might as well be 8, because a good numbe in Con will boost your Fort just as well and make you tougher to boot.

I'm glad that in 4e, not all warriors are musclebound. But Woody Allen and Pee-Wee Herman paladins are taking it a bit far. Yet, that's a norm for a Cha paladin.

 

[Nifft]

I'm glad that in 4e, not all warriors are musclebound. But Woody Allen and Pee-Wee Herman paladins are taking it a bit far. Yet, that's a norm for a Cha paladin.

"When they said looks could kill, they were talkin' about THAT guy!"

"Right, if he hits you pretty hard, that means he hits you hard and he hits you pretty."

Cheers, -- N