Strange New Worlds season 2 - SPOILERS

[Ryujin]

It was a local skirmish in the cosmic scheme of things. The Federation is huge and the other races probably couldn't give two figs about a war hundreds of years earlier without the modern tech to detect it. All of the other members of the Federation aren't going to catch that irrational fear, which still doesn't make sense given the time since the war, and would likely not care if a member state wanted to modify itself.

Sure, but that only really matters to the world involved. If they want to prune themselves, what business is it of Earth? And if an individual human from Earth wanted to be modified or modify their kids, what business is it of the world at large?

There are 350 worlds in the Federation. I seriously doubt they're going to ostracize worlds just because Earth and maybe Vulcan want the law to remain. I got the sense that Vulcan only cares about the law as it exists, not that they share Earth's fear.

For the Vulcans the IDIC Philosophy would make the idea of conforming their race to one single physical "ideal" repugnant.

 

[Maxperson]

For the Vulcans the IDIC Philosophy would make the idea of conforming their race to one single physical "ideal" repugnant.

Sure, but would they impose that view on 348 other worlds? I doubt that they would. Making it legal doesn't mean that Vulcan would engage in it.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Perhaps Scotty will choose a champion. Sulu is good with a sword.

The entire premise for the trial is fatally flawed. I get that Khan and the others were mean and nasty dudes. They didn't have access to anywhere close to the level of technology the federation has. The federation has a much greater understanding of genetics and would know that the result doesn't have to be super aggressive people. Especially since they have an entire race of modified people who aren't trying to rule the universe. Additionally, Earth may be the capitol of the Federation, but they can't keep the others from voting however they wish, and this is an Earth issue.

Nothing about it makes sense.

Your forgetting about the Augments on Enterprise.

The real problem is that Star Trek never gave the none human species of the Federation a motiviation, the Eugenics war did not happen on Andor, Vulcan, etc..., so why do they let humans and their history dictate this?

That being said its an issue that predates SNWs, and on its own merits, its IMHO the best star trek court room episode ever and that is saying something as its got strong competition. Alot of very solid character development in this episode too.

 

[Umbran]

...so far.

The series is still young.

Oh, no, they will not be going there. That kind of cynicism is not what this series is about.

There was a scene in the latter half of Season 2, Episode 2 that makes the series position on her very clear - that genes do not determine who you are - and going back on what was said in that scene would be a negative message to... a great many people.

 

[Umbran]

Nothing about it makes sense.

Exactly! You just got the point. Racist fear doesn't make sense!

But you can't just waggle your reasonability at it and make it go away. We are talking about the fear generated by a conflict that nearly destroyed the human species.

I mean, dude, don't we have enough real-world evidence that racism takes centuries to expunge from a culture?

 

[Umbran]

The real problem is that Star Trek never gave the none human species of the Federation a motiviation, the Eugenics war did not happen on Andor, Vulcan, etc..., so why do they let humans and their history dictate this?

Because it is a morality play rather than a simulation.

 

[Umbran]

For the Vulcans the IDIC Philosophy would make the idea of conforming their race to one single physical "ideal" repugnant.

They would likely find the hubris of eugenics equally repugnant. Two strikes.

Eugenics does not produce "infinite" diversity. It produces only that diversity imagined by the eugenicist.

 

[Umbran]

Sure, but would they impose that view on 348 other worlds? I doubt that they would. Making it legal doesn't mean that Vulcan would engage in it.

In a weird coincidence, I think I found a clip that sheds some light on this. It is from ST: ENT...


You're a Vulcan (or really, any species out there). You are kind of scared of humans, what they are capable of. Maybe, just maybe, there's wisdom in staying away from the thing that humans are themselves afraid of.

Another way to look at it may be that, honestly, the other 348 really don't care that much about it. Culturally speaking, if they aren't disposed to go into eugenics, the ban on it won't seem to be an issue.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

but you can't legislate human nature,

The whole point of Star Trek is the idea that human nature can be improved. That might not be true in real life, but it's fundamental in the Star Trek universe.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

The whole point of Star Trek is the idea that human nature can be improved. That might not be true in real life, but it's fundamental in the Star Trek universe.

A. Star Trek has to fundamentally be about people recognizable as people, or else audiences, 100% made up of actual humans, will not relate to them. This is a franchise that actually faced a bit of an inflection point on that front, because during the early era of Next Gen, Roddenberry had gotten very into his own legend as utopian visionary and kind of insisted the characters be too perfect to have conflict. While society can improve, humans as individuals should not be fundamentally different, which seems to be what you're calling for.

B. We were talking about what a justice system should look like in a Star Trek context. If human nature were to completely outgrow self-interest in that future, to the degree that attempting to bring criminal charges against someone ushers in no inherent antagonism from that enlightened someone, then presumably a justice system in general would be pretty much obsolete. Why are such paragons committing crimes?